Thanks for that response Natalya! He has shifting lameness in his front legs that has been apparent before. He has been diagnosed by a Vet to have pano. We had been good for many months. His pano in the past has only effected the front 2 legs. Come to think of it he was favoring his front right leg before his rear leg came up lame. I am concerened about hip and now what you mention a CCL injury. If he is standing still he will not put pressure on his rear leg. I've just not in the 7 months he's had pano EVER see his back leg effected like this. Makes me a concerned owner. Today he seemed much better and was wanting to run around crazy!! He is still favoring it heavily but not as much as before. Does anyone know how much a hip x-ray will run at a typical vet clinic?

Thanks

Marc, I have a Rhodesian Ridgeback who suffered from pano in his REAR legs as a pup, but it went away fairly quickly and never came back. I mention the CCL injury because my boy has ALSO had a few brushes with this type of injury - once when he was a little under a year old, and once just a few weeks ago. Thankfully he didn't actually tear the ligament the first time, just wrenched the knee pretty good (I saw it happen - he was being wild on a patch of ice and his leg slid out from under him...). But we drove 4 hours to see a specialist anyway and thought for sure he would need surgery - LONG rest and NO running whatsoever for over a month did the trick.

We were fine up until 2 weeks ago when he came back from a hard romp with another dog favoring one rear leg. In the house, he'd sort of stick that foot out sideways and you could tell he wasn't putting weight on it. If you stood over him and lifted up the GOOD leg, he'd hesitate, then let you lift the leg but trasfer his weight to your hand, so the hurt leg didn't have to take it all. Also seemed stiff in that joint. The day after the romp he woke up literally holding that leg up off the ground and he kept wanting to sit down. We gave him Rimadyl for about a week and strict, short leash walks. He got better but was still not putting proper weight on the leg, so we took him to the vet. Physical exam of the legs found no swelling or joint changes in the bad leg, so we were advised to keep resting and keep giving the Rimadyl. It seems to have worked (even though he went NUTS without his daily runs...) - he's standing squarely and accepting what appears to be full weight now on both back legs. We have an appointment with another specialist in a few weeks, just to be sure, but he'd be able to find a CCL tear with his hands, no need for x-ray.

It's really difficult to diagnose these kinds of issues, but for starters, a whole lot of innactivity (no running!!) and an NSAID(sp?) like Rimadyl, if you're ok giving him that, can work magic if all he's done is twisted or sprained something. This initial response is also a whole lot cheaper than x-rays, which around here cost about 75 - $90 a view. Of course, if you don't see marked improvement in a week, see a vet!! Though it sounds like things may be getting better on their own...

Good luck - and let us know how things go!

~Natalya

Mike, very sorry to hear about Max. I hope he makes a full recovery, good luck with him.


Connie, I'm also glad you posted about the aspirin. I was considering giving some to Moka (11-year-old shepherd with dysplasia and arthritis in her hips - she has good endurance and is happy to walk 2 hours a day but bunny-hops when running and has been acting a little stiff in the hind-end lately, unusual for her).

I was always reluctant to go with the aspirin, knowing of the risks of gastric ulcers in humans. Guess it's the same in dogs...

Here's another question for you Connie, let's say one wanted to avoid giving drugs to their dog for pain relief from damaged joints (especially if it's a chronic problem in an older dog). What would be an effective option?
I know of people who warm their dog's joints and claim it helps, while others ice the joints and also say it helps.
While the benefits of icing are obvious when dealing with a traumatic soft-tissue injury, I'm not sure how a condition like arthritis would be affected by such a treatment.

Any suggestions?
I've tried giving tissue salts & some herbal extract (forgot the name, I'd have to check the bottle) that I received from a certified homeopathic vet but they haven't really helped Moka as far as I can tell.

I can see how aspirin would be a good choice for pain-relief when dealing with a short-term (or intermittent) condition like pano in a young dog, but as you said I would be worried about giving it as a long-term solution for an older dog.

Moka is in fine health except for her hips (she also has pannus in her eyes) and I expect many more years of healthy life out of her. This is why I'd rather not compromise her health in any way by giving her medication...

(She's been on raw for over a year now, I keep her THIN, she's also on daily salmon oil or whole raw cold-water fish and on daily vitamin C & glucosamine supplements. All of these factors have produced incredible improvements in her mobility, endurance and energy levels, but I'm always looking for anything to further improve her comfort and joint health).

Mike and Yuko, I know you were asking Connie, but thought I might mention a product that I have used almost since I got Lear, recommended highly by the breeder, called Recovery SA. She even preferred it over glucosamine alone (it contains that as well as other ingredients) and according to their website, it helps with arthritis (but is not only for that condition): http://www.recoverysa.com/recovery_sa.htm a full write-up.

It's supposed to help with injuries as well and help prevent further damage to the cells. It's recommended to give everyday, whether or not there has been injuries or arthritis as a maintenance for healthy cells. Also made for horses.

I did once read that too much aspirin for dogs causes their blood to thin and that the thinning of their blood is irreversible, which makes for a bad situation if surgery is ever needed. I'm sorry, I don't remember the source, some vet website maybe.

Wow, that's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for!

Thank you so much Sandy, I'm going to try that product for my little Moe

(I also know at least 2 other dog owners with young dysplastic dogs that will be thrilled to try this - so I thank you on their behalf as well).

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

an NSAID(sp?) like Rimadyl, if you're ok giving him that,

I know this was not the point of this post, so this might seem off the wall. I'm bringing up Rimadyl because I think not everyone has looked on Leerburg and seen Ed Frawley's comments about not using it. All NSAIDs have side effects, but here is what some others say about Rimadyl, which was first greeted as a real wonder drug:

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/pets-and-ani...profen/331570/
QUOTE: Now, as with all medications, some side-effects were evident, but after the drug's full first year, it was emerging that Rimadyl had more problems than most. Reports about Rimadyl came in by the hundreds. The FDA had received just over 3,000 animal-drug bad-reaction reports in 1996, the year before Rimadyl's launch; but in 1998, the drug's first full year, Rimadyl alone produced more than that many. END

But read the whole thing.

There are many of these.

Some dogs do great on it. But it has killed a lot of dogs. I would not consider it.

And here's a pretty calm report:
http://www.yourdoghealth.com/rimadyl.htm

The thing is, vets tend NOT to explain the possible side effects. It's a drug that needs full disclosure and informed consent.

Rimadyl is ICKY!!!

Had one dog on it and she ended up having all kinds of issues. Took her off and things went back to normal. I wish I would have been a raw feeder then, that probably would have been the best thing for her.

I keep Duramaxx on hand for pain issues.

 Quote: Sandy Moore

Mike and Yuko, I know you were asking Connie, but thought I might mention a product that I have used almost since I got Lear, recommended highly by the breeder, called Recovery SA. She even preferred it over glucosamine alone (it contains that as well as other ingredients) and according to their website, it helps with arthritis (but is not only for that condition): http://www.recoverysa.com/recovery_sa.htm a full write-up.

It's supposed to help with injuries as well and help prevent further damage to the cells. It's recommended to give everyday, whether or not there has been injuries or arthritis as a maintenance for healthy cells. Also made for horses.

I did once read that too much aspirin for dogs causes their blood to thin and that the thinning of their blood is irreversible, which makes for a bad situation if surgery is ever needed. I'm sorry, I don't remember the source, some vet website maybe.

Yes, the ingredients in that formula are mainly either glucosamine or in the glucosamine/glycosaminoglycans/MSM families.

I use them, too, although not usually in proprietary formulae. I've had good success with them with senior dogs, even though the research is still a little inconclusive.

I don't think there is usually any short-term pain relief, and that is sometimes needed.

When it is, I generally ask for Metacam or Duramax; however, they too can (rarely) cause renal failure and death. Just not at nearly the level that Rimadyl has.

Bottom line for me is that I think pain management is important. I believe that severe pain can slow healing in and of itself, causing muscle spasm, contortions to favor a pained body part, and even the canine equivalent of depression or anxiety.

But we have to be careful and monitor pain meds very carefully (and require that the vet do so). And it's up to us to demand disclosure. We learned that from the Rimadyl problems.

P.S.

When I want to assess a prescription med, here's what I do: I google the name of the med, comma, side effects.

After I read those horror stories, THEN I google the name of the med alone, which will return all the glowing reports from the manufacturer and distributors.

Gives a nicely balanced report, IMHO, to a non-health-professional like me.