As usual, I agree with Shelley's take on vaccination/raw and it's health impacts. My latest pup (from unvaccinated parents)has never had a shot in his life, and I'm hoping to keep it that way until he gets to an age where rabies would be prudent due to liability. By some miracle that vets don't understand, he has not keeled over and died yet. In fact, he's the picture of health.

There is no proof that any vaccines even work, except for toxins like tetanus. Guess what folks? To the best of my knowledge, there are no toxin vaccines even available/approved for dogs! The only dogs I've ever had get sick were vaccinated. While I don't take my dogs to dog parks, I'm not psychotically over-cautious, either. A good, healthy immune system is the best way to fight disease, or keep from getting it in the first place. I don't think it's all coincidence-I have 4 dogs ranging from puppyhood to 7.5yrs old, and NOT ONE has been to a vet due to sickness. They are not kept in bubbles; they're just given the best chance to be strong and healthy.

I would be extremely cautious bringing a shelter dog onto that property, knowing how stressed and over-vaccinated those dogs are. I'd go "au natural" for sure. Can't you keep the dog out of the backyard, Denise? Remember, parvo is everywhere...vaccinated dogs shed the vaccine in their urine and feces, and infected dogs do too. Just because you KNOW it was in your yard doesn't mean that it's the only place it can pick it up, or even that it's sure to get it.

4. Stress can cause parvo or any other dis-ease to manifest. Many dogs and puppies that are purchased from animal shelters or brought into rescues come down with parvo. Likely, due to the following: a) The puppy was unwanted by its owner and dumped at the shelter or found living on the street. b) The puppy was subjected to all the animals at the shelter (along with any dis-eases they may have had) and many strange humans. c) The puppy's diet was likely different than what it was used to. d) The puppy was likely vaccinated with a 5, 6, or 7-in-1 vaccine, plus possibly rabies. e) The puppy was possibly chemically wormed as well. f) The puppy was then adopted to a new home with another change in his or her environment, people, possibly other pets, diet, etc. to get used to. ALL of these things can create stress on the immune system of little puppies. Just think of how stressful it is for you to move to a new home and you at least have a choice of where you are moving to!
5. It "used" to be that half of our parvo puppy customers had vaccinated their puppies within 3-14 days of a puppy coming down with parvo and the other half had not vaccinated recently. As of this writing, April 20, 2005, in the past 2 months, EVERY single parvo puppy customer who has called had just vaccinated their puppy(ies) within 3-14 days of the puppy coming down with parvo. This accounts for over 70 puppies coming down with parvo immediately post vaccinations. IF you choose to vaccinate, I strongly suggest looking into Dr. Jean Dodd's Vaccine Protocol or view some information on our Animal Vaccines page.

OMG, the above is EXACTLY what happened to us. Thank you Jason for the link to this website.

My last shepherd contracted Parvo from a friend’s house. I caught it the first time she threw up and she pulled out of it within 2 days. At the time I was living in Sacramento CA (northern CA).

Several years later my roommate brought home a stray puppy. The puppy contracted Parvo within a couple days and died. I don't recall exactly how long between my shepherd’s Parvo and the new puppy; but it was at least 3 years, maybe more.

Parvo can survive in the ground/yard for a long time.

If the pup was only there for a couple days and got sick then then the pup probably did not get parvo from your place. Everything I have read says it takes 7 to 10 days from the time they get parvo before they start showing symptoms. The stray most likely already had it when your roommate brought it home

I asked my vet how long parvo can live in the ground and he told me "2 years".

This is from this Parvo site...."It takes approximately 10-14 days from the time a pet is vaccinated for their immune systems to mount a response to the vaccine. As such, for 10-14 days post vaccination, a puppy literally has no immune system. This is why we do NOT recommend immediately vaccinating littermates who have been exposed to a sibling with parvo. The fact that puppies literally have NO immune systems for 10-14 days post vaccination is largely why these puppies are the hardest to heal."

As a professional immunologist, I will state that this is garbage. While it may take 10-14 days to mount an immune response to a vaccine, it is not true at all that the pup has no immune system during that time. I have no idea where this idea comes from, but it has no basis in fact.

That is very interesting Polly. Thanks. Do you have any info supporting the opposite? This whole parvo thing is scary (I'm buying a pup again soon) and I'd like to learn more. All this contradicting info can leave a person more clueless.

I am an immunologist, but not a vet. I think that for years pets were over vaccinated, and that as a result, many people have stopped vaccinating altogether. Personally, I vaccinate pups, and then only give rabies every three years as required by law. I am on the fence about Lepto, because there are rats in my area, and they carry the disease, but everyone agrees dogs can have a poor response to the vaccine. My own vet allowed me to take my pup out to meet other dogs in the area before he was fully vaccinated, but told me to stay off grass, and out of the dog park. He said Parvo had a much shorter half-life on cement then on grass or dirt. A professional friend of mine who is a very well trained and respected vet does not recommend repeated vaccination, says that is old school thinking. He says it was used as a way to get the dogs in for a yearly exam, which he does think is important.

A web site offering the traditional, Western medicine view is http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/dognz/a/parvodog.htm. Also see http://www.workingdogs.com/parvofaq.htm and http://www.marvistavet.com/html/canine_parvovirus.html. This last site says that the virus is all over the place, and that it is impossible to prevent exposure, which is why vaccination is important. Vaccinated dogs can shed the virus, but it will be the atenuated form that is used in the vaccin, this should not be dangerous to a healthy pup, I would think. In this paper, they report that in cases where a pup developes parvo symptoms after immunization, they can detect both vaccine and "field", or non-vaccine strains of virus in the feces, and they conclude that illness is rarely caused by the vaccine. bhttp://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD4-4M69RGT-3&_user=281587&_coverDate=01%2F26%2F2007&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000016018&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=281587&md5=9b381074241d280102d90c32864c909d

When Parvo first appeared in the dog population about 20 years ago there was no natural immunity, and a number of dogs died. After the vaccine was developed, and as dogs developed natural immunity to the parvo in the environment, deaths decreased a lot, but pups still die. If the mom is healthy, and immunized, her antibodies to parvo will protect the pup for some time after birth, but those same antibodies blunt the efficacy of the vaccine becasue thye bind to the virus and hide it from the immune system. That is why repeated immunizations are given in the first 4 months, to make sure it takes.

The problem I have with the web sites that are anti immunization is the same problem I have with people who do not vaccinate their kids. The only reason that it is not a disaster to refuse vaccination of a child is that all the other kids are vaccinated, so you have very little pathogen in the environment. Children are immunized frequently as babies, then every few years in elementary school, and rarely as adults. This kind of schedule and reasoning makes sense to me for dogs, as well.

In my state, as in probably all states, kids cannot attend school without proof of vaccination. I can't even work at my job without proof of certain vaccines or immunity to viruses. This is for my benefit (I need immunity to HepB because I work with human blood) and for patients safety (I need to prove immunity to measles and chickenpox, and a negative TB test). The truth is that before vaccines were available for human disease, kids got sick, had serious complications, and died in much larger numbers. Just go to any cemetary and look at the birth and death dates at the turn of the last century. Antibiotics and vaccines have changed our population statistics dramatically.

Well, as I see it at this point, I can either try to adopt one of the fosters here, get an older dog or just not get one at all.

The bad thing about getting one of the fosters is that it is from a byb and I was really trying to avoid that. On the other hand I am saving a life and the dog is really sweet and follows me everywhere. How can I say no to that?

That's what I'm sayin'. My dog is a BYB because I didn't know any better when I got her, but pet-wise, I really could'nt have asked for a better dog. Working-wise, she is trying and that's all I ask for, but she doesn't look too bad there either.