Quote: david c.frost

"Rule One - The safest place to be around a PSD is BEHIND the handler! ""


Ha ha, isn't that the truth. Ya try to tell folks that in roll call training etc, but do they listen...... NOOOOOOOOO

Darn that's a tough lesson to learn the hard way.

DFrost

And Rule Two is: When the Handler shouts Stand Still! That means you too - DON'T turn round and walk towards him.........

 Quote: Howard Knauf

Hi Rob,

Would be interesting to hear from your side of the pond on this one. Have your guys tried this? And what was the outcome?

Howard

Hi Howard,

I'm meeting up with a friend next week who has a GP/TFU dog. I'll mention it to him then - but I think I know the answer already

Rob

Thanks Howard. That all makes sense, as does having the dog muzzled to see who he'll go after before assuming anything (I'll pass on wearing the bite suit ). Great training method, excellent.

Howard asked;
"Has any other handler on here tried this? And if so, what was the outcome?"


When I was a trainer in our unit I did this exact scenerio quite a bit . I'd say for K9's encountering this for the first time about 3/4's attacked the handler on the bottom . Some were very hard to change .

I agree it's definately something K9 teams have to train for and maintain .

I think this type of scenerio also falls under the "Is it a dog call or not a dog call ?" catagory . I feel K9 handlers have to be mentally prepared for possibly being engaged by their K9 if they elect to deploy their K9 while they , the handler , are on the ground . No matter how consistant their K9 has been in training . No matter how realistic their training has been . It's hard to replicate a real life scenerio where the dog gets real pumped up .

Like after a long drawn out car chase for example . Can't really replicate this in training unless you got access a race track or something and have alot of officers willing to run around screaming and you still won't do the real thing justice .

It's an eye opener for the handlers and it's actually hard to see their reaction when their partner engages them . For awhile , until the problem is fixed , I see the bond between them effected.

I've been the victim of being the unlucky one on the bottom of a pile . Car chase with stolen , badguy crashes bails into neighborhood . Deploy dog hot on badguys tail but they get about a 1/2 block jumping fences before my partner catches him buy his thigh . Badguys fighting K9 . I come in along with another K9 Handler . Fights on I end up on my butt with suspect in headlock . Other K9 escapes through partially open squad window to join fight . I see him coming and I'm yelling "ouch!" before the K9 even engages my knee . Luckily dog quickly focused on badguy and he engaged the suspect's other leg and we were able to get the suspect handcuffed .

A couple of hours later after being in the hospital getting laughed at by the staff and having a drainage tube put in my knee , we were at the office admiring his partners work .

I like this scenerio along with other scenerios where Officers are down or victims are on the ground or other cooperative suspects are proned out and there is a suspect down range fleeing or fighting making it very tempting for the Officer to send his K9. Differant training goal but same potentially problem causing behavior by the dog .

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Like after a long drawn out car chase for example . Can't really replicate this in training unless you got access a race track or something and have alot of officers willing to run around screaming and you still won't do the real thing justice .

Very true. You can never truly replicate that in training. After a long chase, dogs are in hyper drive. I've seen PSDs totally lose it after this type of scenario where they seem to have forgotten everything they were taught. Adrenalin does some funky things to the body.

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I've been the victim of being the unlucky one on the bottom of a pile .

Not that its any consolatiion but, it wasn't your dog that bit you. Did that handler do this training? Even if he did, the dog's mindset wasn't on protection of his handler. Did the handler know his dog was coming? And if he did, did he try to call him out?
Regardless, You knew it was coming. I feel for you.

 Quote:

When I was a trainer in our unit I did this exact scenerio quite a bit

You're in Central Florida, right? Thats where I learned this. myself.

Howard

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Did that handler do this training? Even if he did, the dog's mindset wasn't on protection of his handler. Did the handler know his dog was coming? And if he did, did he try to call him out?

That was about 11 years ago when I first started . I'm not sure if they were doing that type of training back then . I'm not sure if it would have mattered since I wasn't well known to the dog . He didn't know until it was too late . He had left his car window down when he bailed out to help me . I don't think he called the dog off. It was really quick and dog just as quickly changed his focus to the badguy . I think he must have caught his tooth when he was coming out because he left a good laceration across my knee cap .

You're in Central Florida, right? Thats where I learned this. myself.


I wish . Better yet if anyone needs a K9 in Hawaii let me know . I work for St Paul PD , MN . I was at a training siminar in Lake County, FL years ago and saw it there . But that wasn't the first time . I think our Head Trainer brought it to us. Not sure where he got it from .

I've been to training seminars and competitions in Florida several times and met a lot of great K9 folks down there . Lake County , Lake City , Polk County , and many others and all where great people .

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I'm not sure if they were doing that type of training back then . I'm not sure if it would have mattered since I wasn't well known to the dog . He didn't know until it was too late .

That blows.

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I work for St Paul PD , MN . I was at a training siminar in Lake County, FL years ago and saw it there .

Brrrr! Everyone up there should have a dog to keep them warm! I must have you confused with someone else on this forum.

 Quote:

I've been to training seminars and competitions in Florida several times and met a lot of great K9 folks down there . Lake County , Lake City , Polk County , and many others and all where great people .

Thanks. I like em too.

Howard

I forgot to mention Charlotte County , Plant City and Lakeland .

I spent some of the best times with my first dog just hanging out with him around Punta Gorda in 2000 when our team won the Nation Championship . My first dog also got sick in Plant City in 2002 and I had to put him down on the way home .

Unfortunately some of those guys were up here in Minnesota in 2006 when you guys lost a K9 Handler in very similiar circumstances to how we lost one of ours years ago . I saw how painful that was for them and how badly they wanted to get home to help find the dirtbag. Something I wish we didn't share in common . I wanted to go down to pay my respects but just about everyone in our unit wanted to go so and I missed out .

Anyways to put it simply , I've got a strong connection to Florida and great respect for your K9 units .

Boy, you're department lets you make all those road trips? Lucky you. Next time you're down, give me a holler.

Just wanted to say thanks for writing this post. That's somthing I never had considered before.