Seriously if I were you I would give up on the idea of them both being in the tent. You are not able to supervise when you are sleeping.

Having spent considerable time in the wilderness in the tent you have to remember that a large gust of wind, an animal sniffing around your tent, a branch falling, thunderstorm....whatever may startle one or more of the dogs and if Teagan is stimulated by Luc freaking out....well you just can't train for that kind of thing. The quarters are too close. Aim to keep their relationship good walking and living together.

I would not carry a soft crate for dog for backpacking. TOO BIG. You have three dogs and enough dog crap you have to carry for them I am sure.

I would get a small tie out (wire if you need) and have Teagan or Luc sleep outside the tent. If I was worried about inclament whether I might carry a super light siltarp (good emergency group item to carry anyways) to set up at night:
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302702975&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442334335
If you can get a threshold distance to keep em separated you might even be able to set up the siltarp like a large vestabule so you can still see/keep an eye on the outdoor dog.

I know you might not like it, but you will all rest easier if you all have your own space.

Yeah Jennifer #2,
I have to admit I'm not real familar with the type of camping you guys are talking about. You guys go out for days at a time, and walk as far as you can.
I think I remember Jenn already having an issue with a tree branch falling on the tent in the middle of the night, oh what, a couple of months ago was it? Sounded like quite the donny brook, freaked the dogs pretty good.
Maybe considering as far off the beaten path you guys go, it maybe best for the dogs to be outside the tent any way. Any critters wandering around are more apt to give the camp a wide berth with dogs hanging about.
If the tent is big enough and I wanted to keep the dogs in with me; it sounds like one of them needs to have a separate space within. If the premade soft crates don't pack up tight enough, or aren't light enough, heck I'd make my own. I'm not real sure it'd have to be super dog resistant, just someplace the dog would feel was their place to be. After all, I've never seen a soft crate I felt would hold a dog if they really wanted out. So I'd find some light weight nylon, some small foldable fiber poles and make my dog crate that the dog could carry in their pack. Just my thoughts.

I have to part with the muzzle idea. In my mind it's one thing to use the muzzle for places one really has no control over, ie. public places with loose dogs and people you can't trust. But for my own space ??? Hmmmm, I'd start looking at myself for the answers before I started using a muzzle on the dog.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

debbie, teagan's muzzle is a fighting muzzle....not that we do muzzle fighting, obviously, but b/c it is solid (her previous muzzle i felt didn't give enough coverage). i got it somewhere else, so i won't link to it, but it's thick leather and she's not going to be popping out of it.

jennifer, that's my concern. i do carry a soft sided crate for neb backpacking, but that's a crate neb's size, not luc or teagan's size. how it would fold, leaving aside weight, is a concern for me, but i'm wondering if it would be possible. probably wouldn't work.

i just worry that something would happen to the dogs if i left them outside. that's probably silly, but i do. wire might not be a bad idea for night stakeouts. maybe i'll try it on a little trip and see how i feel. i actually already have that very tarp i did pick up a bigger one this year as well for extra space w/the dogs, but that could make a little vestibule enlarger. i'd also thought of carrying my 1-man ultralite tent (big agnes seedhouse SL1) for a dog to sleep in alone, but i'd be very unhappy if a dog decided to claw it's way out....so i'm not sure on that one.

b/c i do want them all to be able to come on trips - it's one of the things i like about dogs, that they can come. hmmm. if i can get the tie-out so teagan is next to the tent under a tarp, i could still (hopefully) hear if there were any issues.

 Quote: randy allen

I have to admit I'm not real familar with the type of camping you guys are talking about. You guys go out for days at a time, and walk as far as you can.

Me, too...my tent is huge (14x14), weighs about 150 tons, and the farthest I carry it is the 10 feet from the van to the camping spot in the campground...got kinda sick of that and now have a pop-up camper.

I sometimes have trouble with my GSD, Kira, sleeping outside of her crate. When we camp, there is not room for her crate in the camper. It has take a lot of practice to get her used to "turning off" at night. (She is like Teagan in that she is alway "on"). She still wakes me up at the crack of dawn...literally...but we get up and I run her legs off so I can go back to sleep for a bit. My other GSD, Grace, has been a great camper since six months...go figure!

Here is an idea: REI Adventure Dog Tent...it's pretty neat, but not sure how it would hold up.

Good Luck!

wow, nope, i have a couple of ultralight backpacking tents. i think they're roomy, but not compared to yours i got a tarptent (3-man) which isn't self-supporting, and which notoriously collapsed on teagan in june to poor results. i already had the 1-man big agnes seedhouse SL, but got the 3-man version after june since it is free-standing.

that dog tent weighs about the same as my 1-man tent, but i bet luc would stay in it. and it would pack well, despite the extra weight. especially once i'm back in shape (coming off 5 months off due to a fracture), an extra 2lbs 5 ounces is doable, especially since i do have a lot of ultralight/lightweight gear. AND it's a lot cheaper than using my 1-man tent as a dog tent, if anything gets broken.

so thanks! that's a great idea though, somewhere out there, my boyfriend is going to have a heartattack if i get another tent LOL! i'm sure it being one for a dog will make it all the more palatable, heh. i think it's worth a try, especially at $40. i wish we had REI here but i should be able to order it easily enough.

Could you use a pop-up crate? They cost like $25 and weigh 1 lb and fold to the size of a large dinner plate. Teagan and Luc could pack their own crates. I have one of these, and i love it.

http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=482&ParentCat=83

It is VERY chewable, though, as it is lightweight and cheap. However, it might prevent squabbles, and since you will be right there anyway (albeit sleeping...) it might work. Maybe you could muzzle her the first couple times she's in it so she doesn't get the idea to eat it.

Edit: and a roll-proof one for Neb, lol
http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1337&ParentCat=140

wow, that's so cool....who knew all this stuff existed? cheap, folds small, and is fairly light....wow! you guys are the best!

that could be perfect for luc....if if teagan was muzzled the first few times, i wouldn't trust her not to eat her way out if she wanted to some other time. even if it didn't fit in the tent, i could put the small tarp right next to the tent and have him next to the tent.



options! wow! i'm so thrilled

ps, the bf says tents that i won't sleep in don't count towards my total, much though it pains him to make that distinction....mwuahahahaha.

edit: re: the crate for neb - that's great. he does, for now, need something fairly un-edible.

Some of the ultra light tents have a really large rain fly - would you be able to have one dog in, the other staked out and able to sleep under the rainfly? That way they would still be close, and you wouldn't have to carry extra tents?
I've tried staking out with a shorter stake at night - around 5 feet or so, just enough so the dog can't get wrapped around the tent or a stake, and I usually put it under or near the edge of the vestibule so the dog can easily move around outside the tent. If you stake right, you should also be able to stake the dog so it can't get to the other dog in the tent.
I have the MSR Zoid 1 tent. 3 season, but great space for the dog in the vestibule, and you can see the dog through the mesh in the tent. Not sure what space requirements you need, so I don't know if it would work. I have had 2 dogs inside, and it has enough ventilation to keep my bag dry with both dogs and I in a rainstorm.
Also, when in the tent, if you put down a space blanket on the inside of the tent, under the sleeping bags, etc, it helps a TON with nails on the tent floor. They are pretty durable, they pack up real small, (most hikers carry them around anyway in the emergency gear) and they help protect the tent floor. I usually have a couple of them - one in emergency gear, one to use at night, and another usually somewhere in my pack.

i have the big agnes seedhouse SL series - the 1 man and the 3 man....i think they're known for not having big flys. they've always previously been fine for my requirements, and i love how storm-proof they are....the 1-man is a warm enough tent that i'd take it out in light-mid winter weather w/a good sleeping bag and luc and i (or teagan and i) can fit quite comfortably in the 1-man.

(i have a friend w/the MSR zoid 1....he loves it)

i have found the big agnes tents equal to dog nails, though my 3-man and the tarptent i have were not equal to dog teeth well, didn't like the tarptent anyways (don't even ask about the condensation), and the 3-man big agnes is actually okay post-dog.

luckily the latest tiff was when we were still in the park campground, and b/c we were supposed to leave really early, i had my 3-man big agnes packed already and was using my sierra designs omega, which while it may be around 6lbs, suffered no ill effects of upset dogs (too bad i hate how the fly corner coverage is, so i don't use it on trips anymore).

i actually usually carry a lightweight emergency bivy out of the space blanket material.

i am thinking, weight-wise (this is turning into a tent post, but i'm thinking best set-up w/the dogs) is to take the big agnes 1-man, and then the 1-man siltarp - just an extra 215g - to extend the fly. either have teagan staked under that, with neb out there in his soft-sided crate (when he's older, no doubt he won't need that, but for now, he's too....puppyish and hyper to be in a tent, and nothing less-heavy duty would survive him, i'm afraid), or have luc out there in a pop-out crate. i'm doing a weekend backpack next month, maybe i will try teagan staked out and see how things go, and decide from there.

I'm not sure what kind of terrain you guys are camping in. Here I usually put Willow the lab on a round the tree tie out and it works fantastic. I love it. You can also bring a stake but you always run the risk of being in a place you can't drive it in or worse the soil being too loose to keep it in, or too hard to get the dang thing out. I never seem to have this issue with a 12" tree.

I also usually recommend camping with two dogs here in this area, it usually will deter a bear and cougar with two dogs but not with one.