One thing to remember also Diana is that if you are anything like me, (and I hope not for your sake) the training road is going to be full of mistakes with your first dog.

I cringe when I think of some of the things I did to Pepper! It's amazing she is as well trained (cough) as she is!

Keep asking questions to the point where someone has enough evidence for a restraining order! Figure out what is important to YOU from a breeder and narrow your search that way.

Diana, no hostility intended, just facts as they exist.

Just a note....hard tempermented dogs are much more forgiving of handler errors ( & new handlers, especially, make errors) then more soft tempermented dogs. Some soft dogs if corrected unjustly or ruffly (even in error) can be ruined & / or the bond between the handler & dog can be severly damaged. My female is a VERY driven hard as nails dog & the males that I have & have had are much softer dogs. I personally prefer a hard dog. Just what I like.

Alot of people buy working line dogs with no real idea of what it takes to make them 'livable' (able to live in ther house peacfully) They need far more physical & mental stimulation then their counterparts. It is not always easy for some owners to 'satisfy' this kind of dog's needs. Hench the 'crazy' dog.

Also,I will mention this....... living with multiply dogs is a whole other topic but one that you should read up on if you have no prior experience before purchasing another dog. Especially if you intend to get another bitch.

 Quote: Betty Waldron

Keep asking questions to the point where someone has enough evidence for a restraining order! Figure out what is important to YOU from a breeder and narrow your search that way.

Quote Betty from her above post:

Betty IS a breeder of working line dogs & she is correct in saying to decide what you are looking for. I will add that, if at all possible go & meet the sire & dam of the litter you are looking at. Go to see the pups a few times if possible & work with the breeder in picking out a pup. Tell the breeders that you talk to exactly what you want & don't want being very specific, so that you don't end up with another dog that is not a right fit for you.

Thanks Anne. To start, taking everything into consideration...I think I would rather have these hard dogs because like you said they are more forgiving in handler errors. The girl I have now is like you said about yours "Hard as a nail." When I started this forum I thought I wouldn't want such a hard dog with the next one but now I am reconsidering that. She is extremely forgiving if there is handler error.

However, I think you are assuming that she lives in the home and that the next pup will too. I heard from multiple people that Schutzhund dogs turn out better when they are kennel dogs because they can live almost "wild" and you aren't getting frustrated with them in your home because they ARE tough dogs to handle in the house. So, Zelda does stay outside during the day but is crated at night in the home. She gets TONS of stimulation as I am constantly out there working her and tossing the ball. She is sort of dog aggressive...she tries to dominant every dog she meets and will use any means necessary to succeed. I intend to 100% kennel my next dog so they have no means of playing with each other other than through a fence.

My company just left & I have a few minutes, so I thought that I would reply to your post.

Diana, I don't want to mislead you here. Temperment does tend to run in some lines more so than others, just like other traits, handler aggression, hecticness, weak nerves etc...but that is not to say that you can't get a showline with a 'harder' temperment. But these dogs are very different then the working lines. But to me it is the combination of the hard core desire to work along with the hardness that IMO makes a nice dog. It may take a bit more work, consistancey & dedication in training on the part of the handler to produce the results, but I wouldn't trade or sell my female or any dog like her for anything. She is that exceptional type of female that people in the know look for. Not just my say so. I am very blessed to have her. If I could find 10 like her...I'd probably have 10 dogs! The males that I own & have owned has always fallen short of her. You may find that after a dog like the one that you have now, a showline is a bit 'boring' in comparison. But maybe not if she is proving to be too much dog for you. Then your instincts to go to a 'bit of a lesser' dog would be right for you.

My dogs live in the house with me. Although they spend a fair amount of time outside in my 6' fenced yard with me & without me, but supervised. They are also taken out to work on the field multiple times a day. I also have a 10' x 20' kennel, but don't use it much...more so with pups. I want a dog that is a companion, a protector & working dog. I have no idea who told you that working dogs should live like wild in kennels to be good working dogs. This is not to replace proper exercise & mental stimulation. There are those that believe that, but most don't. They feel that this way when the dog comes out they are wanting to work more. It is more mal owners that live this way with their dogs many of which are difficult to live with in the house. I don't believe that my dogs could want to work any more with that living arangement than they do now with the way that they live. I believe that being livable is part of the multifacited ability of a stable well bred environmentaly sound GSD. These traits are the reasons that I love working line GSDs. I have a friend that has bred,trained & trialed Nationally & Internationally a number of his dogs one of which was ranked #1 SchH III in the US. All of his dogs have lived in the house with him, his wife & children. Intact males & whole bitches. So I think that this surely shoots the theory of wild kennel living making better dogs.

There are some dogs that just don't ever get along & must be kept seperate. But I will say that the greater majority of these dogs (not all) are in the hands of people that don't have proper OB & leadersihp in place. Many examples of which have been discussed in posts on this forum in the last few months. If you have proper obedience & leadership in place most dogs can live together. My female can be very aggressive, also. But mostly with dogs not of her pack. But she has lived in peace for the most part (with supervision ) with 2 of the 3 males that I have had owned. My dogs would rather 'play' with me then each other. I work them seperately & together. JMO

Thank you Anne!! I agree 100percent!! It makes me sad to think people would have such a magnificent dog as a German Shepherd and sentence that dog to a solitary existence only to be brought out for "sport" I have a wonderful German bred Dog with VA's and Sch. titles in his line and I am having a blast training him! He sleeps on my bed, follows me everywhere and the bond that we have is fantastic.. He will also do anything I ask him to do on the field or off... of course he is limited by me not being a very good trainer... but I am learning and we are learning together... I think German Shepherds are so much more than just Shutzhund dogs.. What would happen to a kennel dog after he has all of his titles? What kind of retirement would he get? Especially if he has not been raised in the house... Well, Thank you for letting me express my opinion..I Hope Diana gets the Michael Ellis Videos! Fantastic! I have attended his seminar and Michael has Mals and yes, they are in his house... But he has said that he does not play with them in the house, so they learn that when they are in the house, they aren't allowed to be wild... great idea... (:

Wow I think I will be looking into his videos. I need to keep my new pup away from my current dog though because of her dog aggression....I don't want her breaking the new puppy. She is very good with the German Shepherds at the club but any dog on our property she wants to tear to pieces. What do you recommend? I feel I should kennel the new puppy until it has aged a bit and let them play with a fence between them until she learns to share me. I am open to suggestions.

Title the dog you have.

Then think about another dog.

I agree with Anne.... a good dog doesn't need to live in the kennel. I have 2 Mals, a working line GSD and a former stray LabX. All females (3 intact). They all live in the house, get along well together, and know they are not allowed to be crazy women in the house. If they get a little wild, I just have to say HEY and they knock it off.

I personally feel kind of bad for dogs that are left in insolation in a kennel. Dogs are extremely social animals, and want to be with someone. Boredom and/ or isolation could lead to behavior problems down the road.

I do agree with Randy though I won't be as blunt... you should take your current dog as far as you can... make your novice mistakes with her before getting another dog. It makes no sense to have 2 dogs training for the same sport at the same time with a green trainer. You will just be repeating your mistakes with the pup. All trainers make mistakes... we learn from them and use the information to make our next dog's training better.

If you are going to get another dog, I think you need to be honest with yourself and examine if you have the time to put into 2 dogs (especially if these dogs will have to be seperated all of the time). The amount of work and time multiplies exponentially when you start adding dogs to your pack. 2 dogs doesn't mean twice the work... it's actually like 4X the work... or more if they are both high drive dogs.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Your current female is beautiful, by the way.

--Kelly

Dogs are territorial. My dogs are no different...they will not tolerate other animals of any kind in my yard. Normal behavior for a GSD to me & most other dogs.

I have to agree with Randy...I think that you should title the dog that your have before you go getting another dog. Just from some of your questions & statements that you have made, it leads one to think that you have a great deal more to learn before having multiple dogs in you family to train.

If the dog you have now is too much for you, (& this does happen to people) do yourself & the dog a favor & rehome her & get a showline dog. If she is as nice as you say, you should have no problem finding a nice working home for her. You may actually find a showline dog better able to fit into your lifestyle & home. You most likely will feel less overwhelmed by it all & be much happer. It would be a win, win for both you & your present dog. JMO

My female is a whole female & my male is an intact male.

BTW...My female sleeps on my bed some of the time,too.

ETA..that I was typing the same time as Kelly.