Quote: sandie harvey

thanks much, I agree with you --never thought of it that way, Yes class has become routine. I have done the running backwards ploy, sort of speeded him up a bit. He does not like his mom to be toooo far away going in another direction. How would I use the toy throw?

When he's about 6' from you, turn sideways and throw it so he runs right by you. Or if your tall enough, don't turn, throw it between your legs so he runs right through.

If someone can help you, have them hold him back while you go away and then tease him a little before they release him. There's video on here of restrained recalls like that.

The first part of the whole thing is creating the habit of coming to you fast. The front and finnish are taught separate and each piece has its own reward.

Hi-Elizabeth -- not a fan of marker training, probably because I have not much experience with using it.
Have you used DVD from Leerburg?
sandie

 Quote: sandie harvey

Hi-Elizabeth -- not a fan of marker training, probably because I have not much experience with using it.
Have you used DVD from Leerburg?
sandie

No, I haven't had the money to buy any yet, although there are three I would really like to get. I have watched a lot of the free videos and listened to many of the podcasts on it though. I also have a book on it that I bought a year or two ago but never used it cause I didn't really understand it. After listening to the podcasts I started trying it out- in things my dog had learned but I wasn't getting it even 50% of the time. Shortly after starting with marker training I did the "spin in a bucket" which really was Zuki's idea. I just marked when I saw what I wanted. If I knew more yet of marker training Zuki would be doing even better with training but the problem is that I am learning right with her, making mistakes and trying to fix them She is doing a great job though, I am getting at least 80% on many of the things she was doing before.

Sandie said
"He does very well in class, but is bored in the ring."


Sounds like a classic example of a ring wise dog.
He's very much aware that you can correct him in class but not in the ring.
That's not boredom, it's confusion. Without the corrections to guide him as in class he doesn't know what's expected of him.
JMHO!

 Quote: bob scott

Sandie said
"He does very well in class, but is bored in the ring."


Sounds like a classic example of a ring wise dog.
He's very much aware that you can correct him in class but not in the ring.
That's not boredom, it's confusion. Without the corrections to guide him as in class he doesn't know what's expected of him.
JMHO!

So then, Bob, more clarity in training (such as marker training is so great at providing) might eliminate the problem?

 Quote: sandie harvey

Hi-Elizabeth -- not a fan of marker training, probably because I have not much experience with using it.
Have you used DVD from Leerburg?
sandie

Sandie, I can't say enough about these:

http://leerburg.com/219.htm

and then

http://leerburg.com/220.htm

It's hard to say the reason without seeing the dog work but "ring wise" usually comes from not weaning the dog off of correction/reward properly...or just to fast.
By "not weaning" properly I mean that the correction/reward isn't random enough or consistent enough. The dog doesn't understand how to react without one or both.
I never look at that as lazy or stubborn. More then likely just confused.
I would think marker training could help bring up the dog's attitude but correction OR reward based training still boil down to timing.

 Quote: bob scott

It's hard to say the reason without seeing the dog work but "ring wise" usually comes from not weaning the dog off of correction/reward properly...or just to fast.
By "not weaning" properly I mean that the correction/reward isn't random enough or consistent enough. The dog doesn't understand how to react without one or both.
I never look at that as lazy or stubborn. More then likely just confused.
I would think marker training could help bring up the dog's attitude but correction OR reward based training still boil down to timing.

Gotcha!

Back to: "Do you by any chance have any video clips you could link us to of a training session?"

 Quote: sandie harvey

Hi-Elizabeth -- not a fan of marker training, probably because I have not much experience with using it.

Sandie,
If I can have success anyone can. I switched to Marker training when my pup was about a year old and it was night and day. He is not highly food motivated but he'd work his tail off to get that click. I really think his reward is figuring out what I want.

He always had a lot of drive for what he wanted to do; not necessarily for the behaviors I wanted. But marker training put us on the same team. He was challenged to figure out what I wanted and our training became very engaged.

He's now happy to work in any venue.

Give it a shot; it can not do any harm other than maybe slow your progress a bit at first while you get the hang of it.

Sadie: There is a video I found helpful for my dogs. It is entitled, Building drive and focus.My pups are rescued terriors and one was really never played with and was in a shelter/foster home a long time. She needed her drive kicked up a notch. This video helped me greatly to learn how to kick it up a notch.
Also, I never used marker training before either. Wasn't sure about it when I heard about it, but now, man do I love it! I love it because the dogs love it and they long to work and are so happy when we use it. Give it a try, here at leerburg there is also a video about learning marker training and using food as rewards. check it out if you can, these videos are great!
By the way I just received and watched Michael Ellis focused healing video and I love it! I love the steps. It is such a joy to see those pups loving to learn. I will never use the old ways of teaching a dog to heel again, this is the most fun, humane method I have ever seen so far. I really enjoy Michaels videos. Thanks Ed and Michael for making them, all I can say is ...more please. Thanks sharon