Quote: Amy VandeWeerd

I'd say you can still work with him, but know that you will have to say no, absolutely not to those who want to pet him.

 Quote: Sheila Buckley

Dana, I do think this is workable with the help of a good trainer. By workable I mean the ability to provide the dog an environment where he will not be in a position to need to bite.

 Quote: Ben McDonald

1.) You can work with this dog, with professional help, and knowing that probably you will have to keep him away from young children.

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

Once you have wrapped your head around this idea, it's not terribly difficult to manage. I have a 9 year old who has kids over to our house regularly. The dog is either in her crate, or on our patio when kids are over. Period. No exceptions.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

This is doable, but it has to be absolute.

Totally doable, and I failed to say that in my post.

I appreciate everyone's time in answering.

I am definitely going to control the dog's environment in terms of making sure he has no access to children (or for now, anyone else) and that he's not unsupervised in the yard. Even though he has a good track record on obeying the invisible fence barrier, I just have a feeling that the barrier frustration isn't making him a better dog.

So I am confining him more but exercising him on leash plenty, and I have a trainer coming Thursday so I will see what she has to say. In the meantime, as great as the site is (thank you Ed!) it is information overload! Apart from the already purchased obedience video, am I best investing the time in the "dealing with a dominant dog" video? Or would it be a better short term use of time to just control his environment and really really study the obedience training?

To readers, this refers to http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=19&Number=342895&Searchpage=1&Main=30784&Words=+Dana+Hurka&topic=0&Search=true#Post342895


My suggestion is strong management, bulletproof obedience, and absolute containment.

I'm not seeing dominant-dog stuff. JMO.

 Quote: Ben McDonald

I had a very big dog once that thought it proper to correct small people outside of his family pack using his nose and mouth. If you were pestering him beyond his limits, he would push you down and walk away. If you persisted, he would put your hand or arm in his mouth and look at you. Then he would drop it and walk away. Usually at that point people got the hint. It would never get beyond that because I intercepted.

This is still too late an interception IMO. If your dog has to correct a child in any way (pushing, mouthing etc...) then you were not doing your job to protect the dog and the child. The key to this is recognizing your dogs stress signals and stepping in to remedy them before the dog thinks it has to.

Thanks Niomi, you are absolutely correct, and I have learned alot in the 20 yrs since then.

Well, I saw handler error in all these situations. You have been putting too much pressure on your dog and he is suffering for it. I think additional training can help, as long as you understand that you are getting trained to be a more reliable dog handler, not expecting your dog to magically change because you have consulted a trainer and are now incorporating more corrections. This dog has been exposed to unmanaged situations. It does not deserve to be corrected for that.

If your dog is getting frustrated at the barrier that tells me he is being given too much freedom to GET frustrated, which also tells me that he is not being given enough to do that will allow him to release his frustration in healthy ways (ie. putting him to work, training, exercise, containment). I do think it is irresponsible to expect your dog to stay out of trouble when there is no visible barrier and he knows people can cross into his territory at any moment.

With regards to saying "No, he is in training," I had to do this the other day. Jethro is getting really good at sitting beside the sidewalk to allow strollers, the elderly, etc. to pass. Or sometimes he is in a down. For some reason that just attracts attention, "Aw, look at such a well-behaved dog!" "Can I pet him?" "No, he is in training." And these people walked away talking amongst themselves, explaining to the child that they were right to ask, that I was right to say no, and that it doesn't always feel good to have someone say no to you but that is the way it is.

I felt good, my dog was safe, and had another moment of learning to ignore children. He will never be that dog laying on its side with kids flopping over him. He gave me a warning once and I'm not going to wait to find out if he has been 'rehabilitated'.

I am not an experienced trainer, my dog is my teacher. Some days I do better than others.

"I am not an experienced trainer, my dog is my teacher. Some days I do better than others."

I think that is a wonderful way to look at things. That's what the trainers at my club keep trying to remind me.

Dana, as far as your dog, I have one that is not allowed around anyone. He is crated in my room if I have guests, he pretty much doesn't leave the house/yard unless on a 6 ft (or shorter) leash and no one - NO ONE is allowed to physically touch him. I can't even allow direct stares or vocal contact. He is getting better, but I am not willing to risk it. (He was born partially blind and deaf - he gets startled easily). People may think me rude or a social for not allowing contact. I no longer let that bother me. After all, what would they think if my dog bit them? I am guessing they would consider me much more than rude.

I wish you the best with your dog. Just remember, he doesn't need or want to visit with those not of his pack. You are enough of a world to him. (That's what I keep having to remind myself with my little guy.)

I've encountered some of the rudest people who think they are entitled to my dog. He's very approachable and well behaved but not friendly...they think well behaved equates friendly!

I've though about getting a vest and a "do not pet" patch. As long as it doesn't say service dog it should be ok. I was at the chiropractor with my dog and we were waiting in a room at the end of a hall. This man and 3 y/o girl came down the hall...the man allowed his precious adorable girl to run towards us. I kept my hand out saying no, no, NO, NO!! He reluctantly decided to grab her...I could have stopped her myself if I had to.

Later I talked to him about it and ironically they have an aggressive Pug that bites people. I gave him some training advise and he seemed very interested in it...esp seeing how my dog held his stay and everything.

You are his source of affection and he seems pretty reserved towards other people.

 Quote: Lisa skinner

I wish you the best with your dog. Just remember, he doesn't need or want to visit with those not of his pack. You are enough of a world to him. (That's what I keep having to remind myself with my little guy.)

I think this is what is hard for me. My husband and I talked last night about the advice that he doesn't NEED to be touched or pet by other people, and we are in agreement that this is the case. He needs his environment controlled so that he never has the chance to snap at a child again. On board with that. I will never ever allow a child to pet him again.

But I will say that he projects (to me, at least, and maybe I am misreading) that he very much likes to greet and meet people. He has always been very outgoing. I used to take him to the dog park (I don't anymore) and he always wanted to greet all the people as well as the dogs. He plays well with other dogs too, though I find he's much better one on one than he is in a group of dogs, which is one reason we don't go to the dog park. I've had to work hard to teaching him to greet people without jumping on them, because he's very very eager to be pet by all visitors to the house.

Frankly, it doesn't really matter if he likes to greet people, because I am exceptionally nervous about it and just can't allow it for my own comfort. But I hate it for him that the mistakes I have made are going to result in him being very isolated, because it didn't have to be that way I have to not just retrain him, but also retrain my neighbors who are used to interacting with him.

 Quote: dana hurka

But I hate it for him that the mistakes I have made are going to result in him being very isolated, because it didn't have to be that way

Trust me. He will have absolutely no idea anything is different.

He'll be just as happy, or happier because you will no longer be worrying about the next incident.

He will be calmer and more sure because YOU are calmer and more sure.:smile:

FAR from the end of the world for him.:smile: And it doesn't have to mean "very isolated" it just means that you have to stand your ground and ask people to please listen to and respect your request.