I get what you're saying, Will, and totally agree.

I think my, "go somewhere else" attitude is aimed at people that I know did not, and will not do anything.

Its the people that bitch about a dog bothering them, call NO owners or authorities to resolve the problem, and then go right back expecting a new outcome. There have been posters on here that were asking for trouble and were seeking conflict with loose dogs. My answer to them will always be to go somewhere else.

If I have a problem with dogs in a certain area, and do squat about it and then get attacked at a later date, then some of the finger pointing should come right back at me. Or if I KNOW that the owners and authorities did squat, and THEN continue to go back into that area, then I am a dumbass asking for trouble. I should have gone somewhere else. THOSE are the people I'm talking to when I say go somewhere else.

Admittedly, I am probably bad about assuming someone is "that person". I kinda figure that if you had to ask, you are probably better off just going somewhere else.

I also get worried about cowboys that would possibly take unwarranted action against a dog that poses no threat. I use to be that way. All that was needed was to just keep moving. But then again, where is that line that tells me it IS time to take action? I guess everyone has to answer that for themselves.

I also wonder where the responsibility shifts from walking a known aggressive dog in public, to having friendly dogs that pose no risk to anyone walking loose in public.

And yes. Shooting in the air is stupid.

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

 Quote: David Winners

9MM warning shot in the air....

I'm sorry but isn't this an inherently dangerous thing to do (not to mention illegal in many places)? I don't claim to be a firearms expert, but I have a familiarity with them and have taken firearms classes and have been taught all my life that a bullet fired into the air can indeed cause injury, possibly even fatal injury (and of course property damage), on its way down.

If I was ever in a position to feel the need to fire a warning shot, I believe I would fire it into the ground, not the air. In any event, using a firearm against an attacking dog would be a last resort. In a sudden, adrenalin-producing situation like that, I would be terribly afraid of hitting my own dog or an innocent passer-by.

I am deployed (as stated in the first sentence of my post) to the land of mountains and bad guys, which is an inherently dangerous thing to do. A warning shot fired into the ground will skip and has a much greater chance of hitting an innocent bystander at 680 mph, than a shot fired into the hills that will be falling at 200 mph. There is no grass here, or soft squishy dirt for the bullet to sink into, so any shot fired into the ground is going to bounce. If you want to skip pistol rounds into your neighborhood off the sidewalk, that is your choice. I hope you are prepared to live with the consequences.

Using a firearm against an attacking dog IS my last resort, as it was at the bottom of the list, and firing a warning shot into the air, under the given circumstances, is required, is not stupid, and usually sends the dog packing so I don't have to kill it, thereby angering the family I just disturbed.

And Michael Wise, come walk 18 kliks through the mountains in my boots before you call me stupid.

I apologize if anyone takes my previous post as advice on what to do while walking your dog in suburbia USA. I was just trying to share my experience. I do not advocate shooting at dogs unless you know what you are doing, and you know that you have no other choice. If you have to ask where to place a warning shot, or are unsure of how you would handle a firearm in an adrenaline charged situation, you shouldn't be carrying a handgun in public in the first place.

 Quote: Michael_Wise

And yes. Shooting in the air is stupid.

Please let me know where I said David Winners is stupid.

What is the difference in skipping a bullet off a sidewalk and one dropping(assuming one shot STRAIGHT up) from the sky?

None. There is a potential innocent target, and both are stupid things to do in a populated environment.

"What is the difference in skipping a bullet off a sidewalk and one dropping(assuming one shot STRAIGHT up) from the sky?

None. There is a potential innocent target, and both are stupid things to do in a populated environment."


And very dangerous, and probably illegal (in varying degrees, depending on your state).

As David posted subsequently: "I apologize if anyone takes my previous post as advice on what to do while walking your dog in suburbia USA. I was just trying to share my experience. "


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire#Falling-bullet_injuries
(I'm not relying on Wikipedia; I checked their citations).

Also, same site (with references):
In the United States, crime classifications vary from a misdemeanor to a felony in different states:

In Arizona, firing a gun into the air was raised from a misdemeanor to a felony by Shannon's law, in response to the death of a 14-year-old from a stray bullet in 1999.

In California, discharging a firearm into the air is a felony punishable by three years in state prison. If the stray bullet kills someone, the shooter can be charged with murder.

In Ohio, discharging a firearm or a deadly weapon in a public place is classified as disorderly conduct, a Class B misdemeanor, punishable by up to 180 days in jail and a fine of up to $2,000.

In Texas, random gunfire is a Class A misdemeanor, punishable by a maximum one year in jail and $4,000 fine. Anyone who injures or kills someone with a stray bullet could face more serious felony charges.

In Wisconsin, criminal charges for this type of offense range from "endangering safety by use of a dangerous weapon" to "reckless homicide" in the event of a death, with penalties ranging from nine months to 25 years in prison."

 Quote: David Winners

I am deployed (as stated in the first sentence of my post) to the land of mountains and bad guys, which is an inherently dangerous thing to do. A warning shot fired into the ground will skip and has a much greater chance of hitting an innocent bystander at 680 mph, than a shot fired into the hills that will be falling at 200 mph. There is no grass here, or soft squishy dirt for the bullet to sink into, so any shot fired into the ground is going to bounce. If you want to skip pistol rounds into your neighborhood off the sidewalk, that is your choice. I hope you are prepared to live with the consequences.......I apologize if anyone takes my previous post as advice on what to do while walking your dog in suburbia USA. I was just trying to share my experience. I do not advocate shooting at dogs unless you know what you are doing, and you know that you have no other choice. If you have to ask where to place a warning shot, or are unsure of how you would handle a firearm in an adrenaline charged situation, you shouldn't be carrying a handgun in public in the first place.

David, I did read the first sentence of your first post which said, "Being deployed...," however I took what followed as general advice to all dog walkers anywhere and not as specific to the mountains of Afghanistan, Iraq, or wherever you are deployed. Apparently, I completely misunderstood that you were describing your particular situation and locale.

I stand by my belief that guns fired in the air can cause injury to innocent people, and I agree that so can a gun fired into a hard ground surface like rock, concrete, etc. Even so, I am respectful of the fact that there are extraordinary circumstances where the risk must be taken in the interest of self-defense or the defense of others.

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

Even so, I am respectful of the fact that there are extraordinary circumstances where the risk must be taken in the interest of self-defense or the defense of others.

No, your gut instinct is correct. There is never a good time to send bullets flying stray on purpose. If it is worth pulling the trigger, it is worth killing what may be at the end of your barrel.

 Quote: Michael_Wise

 Quote: Cheri Grissom

Even so, I am respectful of the fact that there are extraordinary circumstances where the risk must be taken in the interest of self-defense or the defense of others.

No, your gut instinct is correct. There is never a good time to send bullets flying stray on purpose. If it is worth pulling the trigger, it is worth killing what may be at the end of your barrel.

I agree with your assessment, Michael. What I was referring to by "extraordinary circumstances" was the situation it sounds like David is in, basically a war, something of which I have no experience.

I'm going to bow out of this thread gracefully now (or try to) since I do have my own personal feelings about firearm safety, but I do not want one of our honorable servicemen to feel I am questioning his judgment.

Edited by Cheri Grissom (12/02/2011 12:37 PM)
Edit reason: correct spelling error

Gotcha!

You are entitled to your opinion. I am bound by law.

"There is never a good time to send bullets flying stray on purpose."

You do not know combat. I will leave it, and this conversation, at that.