" This morning I gave them their first leg quarters."

What were you giving before this morning?

Even the brown one is probably indicating too much bone (imbalance between bone and meat), but let's hear what the diet has been.

You have been two weeks?

What was the first RMB? How were poops?

What RMB changed to cause the black poops? (Figure that a poop from a raw-fed dog probably represents a meal from less than a half-day ago .... average 5 or 6 hours if not constipated.)

Today was the first RMB. The first week of feeding, were buying product from a guy who's the supplier for Greyhound racing. His chicken product is emulsified chicken that has everything in it bone and all, so everything is ground up I'm sure this constitutes RMB? Also the beef we get from him is just meat no bone in the ground mixture. I have been feeding .665 lbs of the beef with the rest being the ground chicken .385 lbs. For a total weight of 1.05 lbs per feeding. And I give two a day. This is for 70 lbs x 3.0% 1.05 pounds (17 ounces) for one meal. I'm not sure I like his product as it's not human grade product. Everyone in town is using this guy for their raw meat. $.60 a pound for chicken and $.50 a pound for beef.

Were the black poops from both dogs? Are both dogs now having brown spherical ones?

I would have urged that you get the dog(s) producing those black poops to the vet immediately if I hadn't seen the more recent brown poop that is a far more normal (but too spherical) poop. And I would still be watching carefully; nothing is good about those black poops, and I'd be looking at every poop for blood with the intention of getting the dog(s) to the vet if it continues even one more day.

Those black poops would make me stop that pre-mix instantly. But I wouldn't have bought it without a guaranteed analysis anyway.

What else are you feeding? I see red flags here.

I think you made the right move in getting away from anything that produced those black poops (which I would be concerned contained digested blood and indicated possible bleeding in the large intestine, or a worm overload, or a toxin, etc., and the only thing somewhat reassuring is the more recent not-black poop), but you might want to re-start this diet. You want formed brown logs, and a big factor in that will be the correct meat-to-bone ratio.

And where is the organ meat? Where is the small amount of produce? Where is the fish oil and Vitamin E? Two weeks in, you would normally have a complete diet pretty much in place, and a history of good log poops.

So let's start with this: Can you get chicken backs? I would begin tomorrow with more-easily-digested starter RMBs of chicken backs (cheap!), peeled for the first couple of meals, with some boneless muscle meat added, and watch the poops carefully both for any more blood and for formed logs.

I think some of the raw feeders here will post the variety they feed to give you the idea of how iffy this diet is (particularly with no real knowledge of what the heck is in that pre-made stuff).

But I urge that you re-start with one item, adding and adjusting based on the poops that result.

Are the dogs acting OK? Not lethargic, appetite good?

This is all JMO. I'm not a health professional. I have to say that my first move with that black poop would have been a vet visit and immediate discontinuation of that food.

I'm glad you posted here, and glad you moved away from the mystery food.

My dogs seem fine no appetite issues or signs of lethargy. We just walked a few miles. Chicken backs are hard to find we've been to several local markets and nobody carries them. Also we don't do the veggie's and per this site: "There are 2 camps of raw feeders, the veggie feeders and the NON veggie feeders. I find myself somewhere in between.

I don’t feel that my dogs need the veggies, but sometime they enjoy left over steamed green beans or broccoli from our family meals. Vegetables need to be broken down by cooking or pulverizing for dogs to be able to access any of the nutrition and since cooking destroys the enzymes, the best way to serve veggies is raw and pulped or pulverized in a food processor.

Pulping veggies is a lot of work in my book, so I don’t do it anymore."
I was looking into getting some supplements to make up for the vegetables, and also some fish oils. We just bought a bunch of Chicken hearts, Beef hearts, Beef liver, Beef kidneys, pork liver, pork kidneys......Also not really sure where to find any green tripe. I will stop the pre-made stuff. So menu's of what every one feeds would be great. Is Krill oil okay?

"Vegetables need to be broken down by cooking or pulverizing for dogs to be able to access any of the nutrition and since cooking destroys the enzymes, the best way to serve veggies is raw and pulped or pulverized in a food processor."

Or partly digested (as in green tripe) or frozen (breaks down the cellulose and hemicellulose that the dog does not produce enough salivary or pancreatic enzymes to process in their raw state).

(I keep a baggy of celery tops, outer romaine leaves, zucchini guts, etc., in the freezer and throw a small handful into the dogs' yogurt when I have no green tripe.)


Out of curiosity, was the premade stuff supplied in some kind of chub or "sausage" form? That is, could it be largely blood?

 Quote: Michael Lalla

We just bought a bunch of Chicken hearts, Beef hearts, Beef liver, Beef kidneys, pork liver, pork kidneys ...

Good!

You want to be slow and gradual adding these. Diarrhea is no better than constipation.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

"Vegetables need to be broken down by cooking or pulverizing for dogs to be able to access any of the nutrition and since cooking destroys the enzymes, the best way to serve veggies is raw and pulped or pulverized in a food processor."

Yes, this is a quote from Cindy, but did you notice that Cindy feeds green tripe?

QUOTE: What Do You Feed Your Dogs? Can You Send Me Some Menu Plans? ... We feed our dogs a variety of items. They get chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb, fish, rabbit, goat, duck, venison, bison, tripe, liver, eggs, and occasionally leftovers from our plates!

I agree that produce in the form of green tripe is great .... probably the best. Green tripe in the diet makes other produce optional.

In the absence of green tripe, a small amount of produce processed to replicate it as near as possible is a good substitute.

Look into restraunt wholesale suppliers for cases of backs, necks, quarters & chubs of ground meats. They will have the best prices if you can find one. I pay $12 for a 40 lb case of fresh necks or backs & $18 for 40 lb case of fresh qtrs. You do need to be able to purchase & store larger amounts of foods ( deep freezer)..as most of their chicken parts are sold in 40lb cases & 10 lb chubs. Call around. It's worth traveling to purchase even if you have to drive an hour or 2. I travel an hour away, but I only go every 3 mnonths & get about 200 lbs of meat.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

"Vegetables need to be broken down by cooking or pulverizing for dogs to be able to access any of the nutrition and since cooking destroys the enzymes, the best way to serve veggies is raw and pulped or pulverized in a food processor."

Or partly digested (as in green tripe) or frozen (breaks down the cellulose and hemicellulose that the dog does not produce enough salivary or pancreatic enzymes to process in their raw state).

(I keep a baggy of celery tops, outer romaine leaves, zucchini guts, etc., in the freezer and throw a small handful into the dogs' yogurt when I have no green tripe.)


Out of curiosity, was the premade stuff supplied in some kind of chub or "sausage" form? That is, could it be largely blood?

The pre-made chicken stuff is in frozen blocks same with the Beef. Many AZ breeders in the Pit Bull scene used this product for years with no issues. I have no idea where I would buy green tripe, when I ask people....or local butchers about it they give me a very confused look. So I have to explain what green tripe is. And their reply is no we don't carry it. Pictures of product below. Both products are bloody.
beef picture
Chicken picture

 Quote: Anne Jones

Look into restraunt wholesale suppliers for cases of backs, necks, quarters & chubs of ground meats. They will have the best prices if you can find one. I pay $12 for a 40 lb case of fresh necks or backs & $18 for 40 lb case of fresh qtrs. You do need to be able to purchase & store larger amounts of foods ( deep freezer)..as most of their chicken parts are sold in 40lb cases & 10 lb chubs. Call around. It's worth traveling to purchase even if you have to drive an hour or 2. I travel an hour away, but I only go every 3 mnonths & get about 200 lbs of meat.

I just found a restraunt wholesale supplier that has chicken backs soup bones is this the same thing? $21.36 for 40lbs.