Quote: Tracy Collins

I'm sure there are many veteran dogs that could not be placed in homes. No argument about that. And there might be some that are better off euthanized. But it seems to me the government owes something to 4-legged veterans, the same as it does 2-legged ones.

A sanctuary facility where the dogs could live out their remaining years, away from the public, but still free to have some kind of comfortable life seems a small price.

The difference is whether or not the dogs are seen as equipment or living creatures.

I agree with you Tracy, this would be the best way to repay those dogs that gave so much to their country and countrymen, such brave service, it isn't asking that much, in my opinion.

David, the article made me cry too, and I am so glad that you will be taking Fama when she retires.

Tanith: The only experience I have with the British dogs is their single purpose EDDs (mostly labs), and they were trained very similar to our dogs. I haven't seen any of their patrol dogs. I am interested in what you have witnessed to lead you to believe that their dogs would not be able to join their handler in retirement.

Even in the US, dogs with patrol training will not be adopted out to the general public. They go to military handlers or LEOs with K9 experience. I am not sure if sport dog handlers qualify for adoption.

Cheri: There are many factors that determine when an MWD gets retired. It is a collective determination made by the kennel master and veterinarian. Lackland dogs are placed on non-deployable status and then return to the school house at Lackland for the new handlers to work as they complete their training. Dogs usually work until they are 7-8 years old, and then spend some time at the school before heading to the couch.

Fama is not a Lackland dog. Therefore, I have direct contact with the kennels she belongs to, and have made arrangements for her to come to me when she retires. This could be anytime, as she has allergies, and is very kennel reactive. I was able to moderate her aggression while she was with me, but now that she is back at the regular kennels, she is all spun up again, trying to eat people as they open her crate. If they have a hard time putting a handler with her, and also can not mitigate her allergies effectively, she'll come home to daddy (and will be a competition Nose Work dog 4 days later). I don't mean to hijack the thread with Fama stories. If you want to know the whole story, I can make a new thread.

Tracy: It would be difficult at best to operate any type of sanctuary for 100 retired working dogs. They don't play well with each other, so dreams of a doggy day-care consisting of a bunch of retired patrol dogs are just that; dreams. What would be feasible, would be a kennels staffed by experienced handlers that would work the dogs regularly, exercise them, and spend some time with them daily. This would be expensive, and I don't see the government spending the money.

IMO, the best solution is the one we have here in the US. An adoption program that focuses on handlers getting their old dogs when they retire, with un-adopted dogs being temperament tested and possibly placed with qualified personnel. They would not all make it to adoption, nor should they, but the majority of them could spend a couple of years chilling with their buddy. I feel they have earned it. I have no idea how many MWDs have been PTS in the past decade, but I would like to think that it's a lot less than 807.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

I'm sure there are many veteran dogs that could not be placed in homes. No argument about that. And there might be some that are better off euthanized. But it seems to me the government owes something to 4-legged veterans, the same as it does 2-legged ones.

A sanctuary facility where the dogs could live out their remaining years, away from the public, but still free to have some kind of comfortable life seems a small price.

The difference is whether or not the dogs are seen as equipment or living creatures.

No argument from me on this at all, there are acres and acres of land that is brown belt that can't be, and shouldn't be developed for housing, but could and would be funded by organizations like the Royal British Legion, not to mention money from private donations who have lost faith in high profile rescue sanctuaries, whose rehoming policies are bound up in red tape and bureaucracy; every year Crufts has a friend for life award and the service dogs get it consistently.

I understand that some of these dogs are unsuitable for family life, but there are still some passionate and decent people out there who would support them, people like me that don't have a pot to **** in, but would go without something, ANYTHING, to stop this inhuman practice.

David, I appreciate you taking the time to explain a little more about these special working dogs.

I can speak for myself here in that I am not aware just the intensity nor the mental state of mind of the true military working dogs. I am sure for all the working line dog folks, they understand more fully than someone like myself a pet owner.

I have read some posts that Will has posted but I honestly forget sometimes just how much drive and tenacity these dogs have.
At first, I couldn't really comprehend a dog being unable to retire in that " dog sanctuary" type place, but I think it makes perfect sense now.

I do think what you suggested for solutions though would be the least we could do for our K9 service soldiers! They have earned it!

Again, I just want to thank you for taking the time to explain things, and for your and Fama's service to our country.

I wish the world was made up with more people like you David; I have a friend in rescue that cries herself to sleep every night that works in shelters, she is sick to her core with what she see's every day, dead dogs stacked high, waiting for removal, it isn't good for her mental health, but like those of us with an ingrained love and passion for dogs, she turns up every day and does what she can.

What people think is acceptable where dogs are concerned makes me violent, I will never get it, if I live to be 100.

I wasn't envisioning a doggie daycare or dog park--I'm not so naive that I think these vet dogs could live like that. Individual kennels, with professional handlers that could provide daily exercise.

And a couple of meals a day. And a cot. And healthcare. That sounds like what we provide even the worst human prisoners in a civilized society.

In the grand scheme of military budgets, this doesn't seem like much to me. We're only talking about, what? 5-7 years max before the dogs would die natural deaths anyway.

"I don't mean to hijack the thread with Fama stories. If you want to know the whole story, I can make a new thread"

I would LOVE to hear stories about Fama, so please post some!

 Quote: tracey holden

"I don't mean to hijack the thread with Fama stories. If you want to know the whole story, I can make a new thread"

I would LOVE to hear stories about Fama, so please post some!

Me too!

Me too especially if she's the gorgeous girl in your signature pic!

But not to hijack the thread...I would like to think I could qualify to adopt a tenacious dog or more, s*** I have one now! LOL Years down the road if I had a decent piece of land I'd help them out if I could...but that's my wishful thinking. They really deserve it. I think as long as they make an effort to place them, then we can understand that not all may be adopted.

I mean I can't imagine my neighbors with one....or some PetsMartian with one.

Tresa: I don't really know who are crazier, dutchies or their owners

Tracy: I hope I didn't belittle you by inferring a lack of canine understanding on your part, and if I did, I apologize. I do not think you naive at all.

I would love to have a kennels with 10 retirees to look after. I believe the right person could offer them a fulfilling life until their time comes to cross the bridge. I think a sensible solution would be for the working dog agencies to screen and select suitable handlers for retirement care facilities, and simply fund the building of the facility and expenses of the upkeep of the dogs. They wouldn't have to pay anyone to care for the facilities or the dogs. Building kennels and buying food are the cheap part of the equation. Veterinary care could be provided by military vets. If handlers were chosen as the caretakers, they could also offer the dogs the chance to work. The detection dogs could easily be imprinted on Nose Work odor, and could still get out there and have some fun every day.

I'd gladly take the problem dogs that have a hard time finding homes. I kind of like a$$hole dogs anyhow

Somebody come up with a catchy name (Project MWDifference?) and start calling Congressmen / Parliament members.