Khoi Pham wrote 05/08/2004 10:59 AM Re: Need help with the out! [Re: Tricia Gebe ] #35158 - 05/08/2004 10:59 AM
Khoi Pham Webboard User Reg: 12-08-2003 Posts: 130 Loc: Texas Offline	you will not want your dog to out just because you have stopped moving and you are still holding the item. You are right about that, I noticed he sometime automatic go to an out when I stop moving the prey item, but I fix that very quick by when I stop moving the prey item, as soon as I feel he start to ease the grip, I jerk it out of his mouth, only have to do that twice and from then on, he hang on tight until out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Khoi Pham http://www.k9workingdogs.org
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John Hohman wrote 05/10/2004 11:16 AM Re: Need help with the out! [Re: Tricia Gebe ] #35159 - 05/10/2004 11:16 AM
John Hohman Webboard User Reg: 02-16-2004 Posts: 328 Loc: Offline	I guess I can't think of a "nice" way to teach a dog to out. If you try to be too gentle then you get all the munchy stuff going on, rebites, etc. I've seen the out taught in a variety of different ways from pinching the ear, sharp leash pops, e-collar, flanking the dog etc., all methods of compulsion. I agree that I would prefer to train my dog with little or no compulsion so I would be interested in anyone that has taught their dog to out without using compulsion and that when given the "out" command, it is reliable. Ohno Von Kaykohl Land & Troll Vom Kraftwerk.
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Ron Bryant wrote 05/10/2004 01:56 PM Re: Need help with the out! [Re: Tricia Gebe ] #35160 - 05/10/2004 01:56 PM
Ron Bryant Webboard User Reg: 11-15-2002 Posts: 375 Loc: Offline	Khoi You obviously have seen Ivan teach, and it works great. It does however take a little longer. If you dont have his tape I highly recomend it. Vc is correct I would try the easy way first if that doesnt work you can go to the heavy correction later. All of these four leggeds are differant, as is there temperment. The trick is to listen to every one. Every thing they say will work on some dogs. You just try the ones you like untill you find the one that fits your dog. Ron flyfsh77
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Khoi Pham wrote 05/10/2004 02:37 PM Re: Need help with the out! [Re: Tricia Gebe ] #35161 - 05/10/2004 02:37 PM
Khoi Pham Webboard User Reg: 12-08-2003 Posts: 130 Loc: Texas Offline	Ron, yup that is the tape that I mentioned I got, I did not know if it was appropriate to mention it on this forum so I did not, now I'm just confirm what you said. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Khoi Pham http://www.k9workingdogs.org
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Ron Bryant wrote 05/10/2004 11:53 PM Re: Need help with the out! [Re: Tricia Gebe ] #35162 - 05/10/2004 11:53 PM
Ron Bryant Webboard User Reg: 11-15-2002 Posts: 375 Loc: Offline	Ed has great tapes, and he knows it. Im sure he would say the same thing. The more tools you have in the box. the better. Some times one works anouther time something differant. Good luck Ron flyfsh77
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Casey Crawford wrote 10/25/2004 09:22 PM Re: Need help with the out! [Re: Tricia Gebe ] #35163 - 10/25/2004 09:22 PM
Casey Crawford Webboard User Reg: 10-25-2004 Posts: 52 Loc: North Carolina Offline	I am new to this forum but this looks like a good group to ask this question to. I have a young puppy and have been using the Flinks tapes to build drive with a tug. My question is if I only out my dog once a day and I should not let my dog chew on his toy how do I end the drive game if he will not let go of the prey item when we finish?
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John Hohman wrote 10/25/2004 11:11 PM Re: Need help with the out! [Re: Tricia Gebe ] #35164 - 10/25/2004 11:11 PM
John Hohman Webboard User Reg: 02-16-2004 Posts: 328 Loc: Offline	Casey, the dog always needs to win in the end. So if you want to end the session with the prey item still in your dog's mouth, run him to the car/crate, whatever. Once in the crate most dogs tend to drop it. JMO Ohno Von Kaykohl Land & Troll Vom Kraftwerk.
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Will Rambeau wrote 10/26/2004 01:11 AM Re: Need help with the out! [Re: Tricia Gebe ] #35165 - 10/26/2004 01:11 AM
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003 Posts: 5983 Loc: Idaho Offline	My experience with taking the dog to the car is the exact opposite - if I don't get him to out before he gets into the crate with it, it's the start of a bad situation - the dog may chew and destroy the item, and risk choking, or you have to get it from him with the dog now having a significant advantage in the crate - the dog can spin away from you in avoidance, or it's at face level for a fight , with you sticking your arms into it's domain. Uh uh, not me, brother, and certainly not with the kind of dogs that I train. They out *before* I even open the crate door. Thinking a situation through before hand saves you from being an accidental chew toy. Of course, if your dog isn't possessive of a toy, then it's not a problem. But I wouldn't think his drive would be too strong for the item then... The Fetz dog: http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/79673/page/25
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Tim Leigh wrote 10/26/2004 04:52 AM Re: Need help with the out! [Re: Tricia Gebe ] #35166 - 10/26/2004 04:52 AM
Tim Leigh Webboard User Reg: 07-07-2004 Posts: 161 Loc: Offline	In our club we are tought to give the dog a win then take him back to the car/crate with his prey, however if the dog doesnt drop the prey before or at the car, the dog is outed. This is for two reasons the 1st for the reasons that Will outlined previously - the second because we are quite low on resources and need the equipment for the other dogs :rolleyes:
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Casey Crawford wrote 10/27/2004 01:53 AM Re: Need help with the out! [Re: Tricia Gebe ] #35167 - 10/27/2004 01:53 AM
Casey Crawford Webboard User Reg: 10-25-2004 Posts: 52 Loc: North Carolina Offline	Thanks for the opinions. It sounds like you all have thought about this issue as well. My only question about outing before the dog goes into the crate is this...Bernhard and Frawley say that the game should resume immediately after the prey is outed, obviously this can't happen when I am putting the dog back in the car. I guess it is great that my dog likes his prey item but he just won't give it up. I think the video also says that we should only command out once a day so how do I get around this. I suppose this won't be as much of an issue in a few months but for now I would love to hear opinions on what is worse outing a couple times a day or letting my dog chew his prey item in the crate?
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