Perhaps if you tie the dog out and fustrate him with a ball this will help build drive.

My bad, that is what I tried to 'splain......tie my dog out and make drive for the ball BEFORE starting out like everyone in the vid. Do ya think the split second it would take to let my dog off of the post, fence, tree, etc would allow him to disengage and drop in drive, thusly being counter productive? There seems to be an almost introductory stage or pre-drive stage missing. I have improved my timing on pulling the ball away from his his grasp before he bites it and that seems to have made an improvement in his drive. What I'm trying to figure out is this, it seems to me that it is assumed on the handlers part that there is an inate desire for the ball with out "winding" the dog up in an introductory stage prior to what is on the vid?

Could it be that there is a nuanace of the theory I'm missing and that is why I'm slighty askew ( can ya tell I just did an Agg DUI, its so late it's early). I will study the tape again to see if any bulbs light up. Thanks.

Well, you didn't ask my opinion above, but I am going to TRY and answer anyway.

 Quote:

tie my dog out and make drive for the ball BEFORE starting out like everyone in the vid.

I wasn't there to see the making of these videos, but remember Ed showing examples of dogs with little drive in the video. No offense, but it sounds like you have one of those dogs. Tieing the dog out and attempting to frustrate him if he does not already desire the ball isn't going to work. With a dog that just plain hasn't had any form of prey development the Kong on a horse whip works real well. You can make faster movements and get the dog working at the ground level and then transfer to the ball in hand. Once the drive to "catch" the kong is there (which took a day with my six month old that had NO previous drive development, but he would bite pants, sleeves, and attempted to attack fed-ex trucks <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) you can switch to the ball in hand.

If not, this is not the only method of motivation with minimal force. Find what your dog really likes. Food works well on a lot of dogs. Some will simply work for praise.(mine want a payday)You can still use the into-my-arms command and use that later in protection training.

Try the kong on a whip. Find a local feed store or tack dealer and ask for a buggy whip. You don't want a lunge whip the lash is too long. You can buy a lunge whip and just shorten it, but it will cost you more. It will cost you less than $10 for a buggy whip and it may solve the problem.

Every dog is different. Some dogs you just have to show them the ball and they go into drive. Others you have to frustrate. Some just don’t have it in them. An important point that Barnard makes often is that consistency and repetition is important in dog training. You must do things 30, 40 sometimes 50 times until the light goes off in the dogs head.

Rather soon to say but.......
It seems rather redundant to have to point out the obvious; here it goes anyway. The best place place to start is at the beginning. I reviewed the Flinks "training in drive.." vid for the one billionth time and realized two things; one, if one is to subscribe to the Flinks methodology one must subscribe wholey and start at the beginning. Two, if a dog is to see the prey item (ball on a string) as something desirable and fun, he must be allowed to have it and play with it. If you "make the deal" with an inanimate object for which the dog has no real or driven desire, you are SURE to post a few really stupid things on this board until either 1) you figure it out and kick yourself in the ass or 2) someone else figures it out and kicks you in the ass. I realized this in watching the motivational retrieve vid AGAIN today. Thanks for the help and wake up call, y'all.