Drew What about when she on the bite, say "Packen Sheba", "Packen, good girl, Whatsher nameis Packen", even stroke her along the side of her body, if it doesn't distractor her, "Packen good girl" !!!

As he running off, rub her up and tell her she has done a good job, act excited.

Your dog almost seems like she already trained doing all that with the only verbal command of "Search" or "Get em" or "Packen", and no praise during or before. To me what you are doing is working but she doesn't really know that she is really doing it the well or the way you want for now. She is just an excellent dog all by herself. And far be it from me to say this but you are a Ok trainer. You might be a great trainer get her to do all that with no encouragement, she just doing it because you said so.

A lot of this I got from around here and the videos tried it and it works. Videos worth every dime.

The trainer I work with every few months is a Utah Post K9 Judge, and he cannot say enough good things about this dog. He tells me I need to learn more so I can teach the dog more......He understands I can only do so much with what I have to work with...but he says the dog is "phenomenal". That makes me feel great....though sometimes I think just the opposite because I see something I am unsure about.....

I know I should probably know by now but how old is your dog ? Also what you were describing is not tracking, it is air scenting. Im not saying thats a bad thing unless you want your dog to track instead. Next time you have your dog doing an excercise like that have the helper retreat down wind so the dog cant pick up the scent in the air and will be forced to put its nose to the ground to find him.

She is 22 months. I hadn't even thought about the wind issue. I can't even remember if we were upwind or downwind....good point. See, it pays to post on this site......atleast for me it does. I always learn something new.

Drew,
I might have gotten lost somewhere. What is your exact goal? At first I thought it was finding out what your dogs' threat level was and how to get her to aggress without too much effort. Your last post sounds like you are working on tracking as well. If so, you need to pick one area of training and stick with that throughout the whole training session. It sounds to me that you are trying to perform tracking and apprehension work simultaneously when in all honestly you have excelled in neither. Pick an exercise or function you want the dog to perform and stick with just that. Later in the day or the next day work on the other. You have to crawl before you can walk etc...You may be confusing the heck out of the dog and that is why she is not reacting/working the way you want. If the Utah POST judge is correct about your dog she should have no problem learning what she needs too learn. Is it possible she aalready knows what she is doing more than you know what youre doing? No offense. Also, if she has what it takes you need to give her clear direction for her to perform as you expect.

I think you hit the nail on the head with you last comment Howard. She is waiting on me. I typically have to learn before I can teach her, and even then she will often pick up on it, and I will be left to wonder if everything went as planned. Sometimes I am the problem......I am trying to find that path for her, but it has to be through me...sometimes that is a holdup.

The initial question was about the stress level, and that remains the topic of concern. I understand where some mistakes were made during the tracking/scenting part of the exercise. Back to the stress level.....the posture and such as I described.....am I overlooking the significance in that?

Josh,

I have worked with some experienced docoys, and that is when the training goes well. In the area I am in, Southern Utah, I have been having difficulty finding experienced decoys. Typically on a bite with the green helpers it turns into a game of tug of war, rather than a fight. With the experienced helpers, it is a fight and the dog responds very well......

It appears to me, if what you are saying in reference to the inexperienced vs. experience, your dog is adjusting to the threat level as perceived by her. Either stop using the inexperienced, many times they can set you back farther, than being able to train with an experienced decoy, every so often.

When you set up an scenerio, make sure you have worked her in all the areas you expect her to do in one. What I mean is if you want to to get to step F. You need to train in steps A,B,C,D,E & F - not steps A & F.

My personal thoughts
Good Luck

Drew<
You're kind of in a bad situation. A poor decoy can ruin a dog faster than a poor handler. If you are using someone who doesnt understand how a dog works, no amount of training is going to work. Utilizing a good/experienced helper has two very welcome advantages. One, he/she knows how to read a dog and knows what to do to bring the best out of the animal in training. They also know when not to push when the dog is in conflict or is on the verge of shutting down, thus the training session is positive and something is learned...another step forward. Secondly, Good decoys for the most part are good handlers/trainers. They can help you by giving some instruction during the session if he feels you arent doing your part or if you just dont know what to do because of inexperience. If possible you might have to hunt down an experienced decoy/helper and hire that person for as much training help that you can afford. You'll learn more than you think.........Howard

I recently obtained permission from the Utah Highway Patrol to participate in their K9 training. Whether or not they will allow my dog to participate is another story.

Also, in the next couple of weeks, I will be working with the K9 judge I have mentioned. He is a great decoy, and seems to bring out the best in her. I also have permission to work with this gentlemen and a couple other L/E handlers on a weekly to semi-weekly basis, with my dog. They are about an hour and a half away (not that bad really) but to participate on a weekly basis, becomes difficult because of my school and work load. They typically train on a day that I have a class......so many factors which add difficulty. The L/E agencies locally are reluctant to allow me to participate in any way because of libility reasons.

When I train with the inexperienced helpers, I try to keep it as simple as possible, though sometimes I push it and confuse everyone. Typically, the helper agitates with very basic movements and sounds, with the sleeve in sight. The dog is on leash......the helper gets within a foot of a bite, several times (building the frustration level) then runs.......the dog is let go, the helper catches the dog......so on and so forth.....just real basic stuff. From what I can tell, these helpers aren't taking away from the training, but I wonder if they are helping the training. More than anything they seem to be maintaining the level at which she is at.........yet the goal is to increase that level.

If I could afford it, I would send this dog to a trainer to finish the training and certify, though my trainer has recommended otherwise. I have even offered to barder with a future litter of puppies in return for the training........I am not having much luck there either. Also, there are only a handful of people I would even consider allowing train my dog, and even then it comes down to what I can afford.......next to nothing.

Seems to be a never ending circle of setbacks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />