I believe I've only seen a GL used properly ONCE,and that's not enough. The propensity for injury is much greater on a Halti or GL than a martingale or prong, not to mention the fact that the nose strap on those head halters are putting the dog in a constant state of submission, not something I'd like to do to my own dogs.
This article has makes some excellent points against the use of head halters.

Laura,

You are missing the point. I'm not suggesting that YOU use the GL. It's one tool out of the many. Different strokes for different folks. It does not make the tool completely useless. It does very effectively prevent a lot of dogs from pulling.

Think of what a GL can do that the other collars can't do. Would there be an advantage to this in some cases?

I've seen plenty of people misusing prongs. That doesn't make them a poor tool.

What's the improper or proper way of using it? And have you only seen it properly used once????

Any dog that is complying because of compulsion being it's only consequence in training is in a contant state of submission regardless of the tool.

I don't think I was missing any point, I was stating my opinion of them to the original poster.
As for the misuse of them, the chances of injury are still higher with a head halter than with a traditional choke or prong, simply because of the force that is applied to the cervical collar and spine. And when I see most people yanking on the leash to get the dog back next to them, or allowing the dog to hit the end of the leash because they aren't paying attention, it makes me cringe.
If used properly, granted, they can control a dog, but I would rather teach my dogs than control them, IMO.

Some dogs become collar wise. I think it's OK to saddle your dog up with everything once in a while, even two or more at a time...say a harness, a prong collar and an agitation collar. It sure looks funny, and it's not great for getting girls, but this diminishes the chances of collar wisdom. Besides, your dog should be used to putting on whatever YOU want.

If you're asking because your dog is a puller on leash, it's important to know if it your dog pulls while heeling or while "out for a walk".

For heeling, I think it's good to teach your dog where - exactly - he needs to be, using a prong collar. The prong corrects leads and lags, and YOU praise and/or treat/click, etc to mark correct placement. Works great for puppies. Some dogs might even need a bit of prong sharpening - but that's only for people who know what they're doing.

If your dog pulls heavily while out for walks, it's not a matter of placement vs yourself; it's a matter of teaching to slow down the instant some pressure is felt on the collar, because if not, heavier pulling will be painful.

I think the handler should indicate to the dog that it is not on heel by using any useful word, and NOT correct the dog for pulling - the prongs should do that. For this, sharpened prongs are quite good.

I don't like yelling at my dog, nor repeating commands or warnings - so a couple of good, instantaneous and "impersonal" corrections to stop pulling do the trick for me, while preserving the handlers (my) pulcritude intact.

So if you want to use something that can mess up your dog's neck, use it by all means, but AFTER your dog knows what you want, you've generalized it, and you've proofed it.

Pulcritude...what a word!

 Quote:

For heeling, I think it's good to teach your dog where - exactly - he needs to be, using a prong collar. The prong corrects leads and lags, and YOU praise and/or treat/click, etc to mark correct placement. Works great for puppies. Some dogs might even need a bit of prong sharpening - but that's only for people who know what they're doing.

If your dog pulls heavily while out for walks, it's not a matter of placement vs yourself; it's a matter of teaching to slow down the instant some pressure is felt on the collar, because if not, heavier pulling will be painful.

I think the handler should indicate to the dog that it is not on heel by using any useful word, and NOT correct the dog for pulling - the prongs should do that. For this, sharpened prongs are quite good.

I don't like yelling at my dog, nor repeating commands or warnings - so a couple of good, instantaneous and "impersonal" corrections to stop pulling do the trick for me, while preserving the handlers (my) pulcritude intact.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> If you need to sharpen prongs in order to get the job done, then it's time to reassess your skills as a handler.

. Some dogs might even need a bit of prong sharpening




that my friend is why e-collars were made.

if you have to sharpen a prong move to an e collar. safer and you stimulate all you want with drawing blood.



and laura it is not time to reassess your training skills if you have sharpen a prong. ever delt with a very hard working dog in drive.

you need something like that to make him realize your still here and he needs to listen to you

Laura...my sister's name is Laura, and so...I'm naturally drawn to your name...and by classical conditioning, to your "sharpened" retort.

It's not for everyone, nor for every dog...by gosh!

Please let me tell you...THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT IS THE TOOL OF CHOICE --- ONLY IF YOU'RE EXPERIENCED! To draw blood? Nah. By the way, it's nasty to scream and yell like a banshee at your dog...sometimes you just can't...Oh, BTW! Sharpened collars are of course never for puppies.

Some dogs are just VERY hard. If you ever train one for subtle yet violent types of work, you'll know.

E collars are great for this too, but you gotta stick with being different... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> to prevent your dog from...ah, whatever!

Laura...

Have a great weekend.

I was active years ago in Schutzhund, my FIL was a WWII MDH,I still work with some extremely aggessive animals, and I still think it's horsesh*t that you need to sharpen prongs to get get the job done. And trust me, I'm no PP trainer, when I started out, you learned Koehler methodology and not much else.

Hmm, VanCamp and Will Rambeau both own dogs that some would consider as hard as they come, care to wonder what their views on this are?

Well, I have seen the sharpen prongs ( actually more squared off then sharpened, to be accurate ) used by some of the big names in the SchH world, but mostly in the olden days, and mostly by the Europeans that had emigrated to the U.S. .
I have also seen skilled trainers use them on very hard dogs when nothing else would work.....and they ultimately didn't work either.
And I've seen way too many dogs imported from Europe with badly scarred necks to feel comfortable with this. Too often it's used as a quick fix across the pond for a dog to be sold to "the stupid American's". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

These events pushed me more to favor a multiple trainer set up on the hardest-of-the-hard dogs using a back tied scenario and a dominant dog collar ( which takes a ton of skill and experience to use correctly, definitely not for anyone but an expert trainer to use as a last resort ). This particular training technique requires three trainers that can work together as a team, but it yields the most reliable results on this difficult to train subset of dogs.

There isn't any reason to use a sharpened prong, period.

E-collars are the answer to the hard dog that can shrug off prong corrections. . .not edged off prong collars.





That's about all we need to say about that. It won't be something that is advocated for on this board, Ed has made that clear in the past.