 Re: Cesar Millan and herding
[Re: Dawna Provancial ]
#341051 - 08/08/2011 11:52 PM |
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I'm one of those people that put the HT behind my SAR trained, SCHIII, CDX GSD.
The difference between a dog that just chases sheep around a pen and a dog with true natural instincts for herding is night and day.
Unfortunately, AKC herding is more about the handler's ability to "place" the dog in the right position in order to move/control the stock. Little to do with the correct dog.
I personally wouldn't take a dog in the pen/field if that were the case.
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Re: Cesar Millan and herding
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#341056 - 08/09/2011 01:58 AM |
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I remember going to herding trials with some friends when I was a child. Those dogs were amazing. I had one of my collies tested to see if he had any instinct (he really didn't) but the test was in a field with the dog on a long line rather than in a pen. He was actually more interested in the smells and sheep poop than the sheep (LOL).
On the other hand my sister's Blue Healer, Border Collie cross has a ton of instinct but not the training so, despite now living on a ranch is only permitted very limited access to the cattle. They wish he was trained but he when he came to them as an adult they were not managing the ranch and now that they are he's an older dog with some health problems.
"A dog wags his tail with his heart." Max Buxbaum
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Re: Cesar Millan and herding
[Re: Elaine Haynes ]
#341060 - 08/09/2011 06:36 AM |
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He was actually more interested in the smells and sheep poop than the sheep (LOL).
 From what I've observed with my dogs, I think this poop eating behavior serves as a signal from dog to cow that says, "Don't mind me, I'm only eating here".
My dog does this if he's a little scared, if the cow needs to cool off, if he's unsure of exactly what I want....and of course, if the poo is new calf poo and especially delicious..... 
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Re: Cesar Millan and herding
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#341065 - 08/09/2011 07:51 AM |
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The difference between a dog that just chases sheep around a pen and a dog with true natural instincts for herding is night and day.
Absolutely. My Kipp is quite gung ho and a lot of dog to handle on stock. But he also has a good natural sense of balance, is quite stylish and serious about the work. Before I bought him the breeder took him out to show me what he could do on stock. It was his second or third time on sheep there was about 8 of them, Kipp kept them balanced right to the handler.
Unfortunately, AKC herding is more about the handler's ability to "place" the dog in the right position in order to move/control the stock. Little to do with the correct dog.
I personally wouldn't take a dog in the pen/field if that were the case.
Sooooo true!! On top of this all beginning sheep are usually pretty well dogged. Dogs can look like they're doing something because the sheep are trained - they know that the way to escape the pressure of the dog is to stick tight to the handler.
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Re: Cesar Millan and herding
[Re: Kelly Byrd ]
#341070 - 08/09/2011 08:10 AM |
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You could always post some new videos so we can see that progress (hint, hint....  )
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Re: Cesar Millan and herding
[Re: Mara Jessup ]
#341092 - 08/09/2011 12:04 PM |
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I need to get some more!!!! The last few video's accidentally got deleted.  I'm probably going to be going out later this week, so I'll see what I can arrange.
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Re: Cesar Millan and herding
[Re: Webboard User ]
#341647 - 08/15/2011 03:40 PM |
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Malinois? I've seen more excused from trials then actually finish a run due to harassing or seriously injuring the stock. Ive seen more Mals kill stock then any other breed as well, Mal pups as well. I witnessed a near drowing of a Mal that would let go of the sheep. They stuck a hose in the dogs mouth/nose, and it still took a while to break the grip. Unfortunately, very few trainers around here will work with Mals because of that. I'm one of the rare who will and do.
What part of the country are you in? I'm curious since I herd with Malinois, well I did, I'm taking a break right now. I've heard from various people about Malinois killing sheep, but it's not something I've seen in my area, I'm not doubting it has happened, just curious where/what dogs since it seems to be an issue in other areas.
Then again in my area I can't recall ever seeing a sheep killed in a trial, or even seriously injured, it just doesn't seem to be a common occurance. I have seen a few dogs attack a sheep and not let go without human physical interference, and lots of dogs that harassed/chased stock vs actual herding.
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Re: Cesar Millan and herding
[Re: Mara Jessup ]
#341648 - 08/15/2011 03:43 PM |
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what about the sheep in the process?
I agree completely with your two cents. Herding is the one sport where some of the participants did NOT sign up to participate, and I think handlers really need to keep that in mind.
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Re: Cesar Millan and herding
[Re: Kadi_Thingvall ]
#341654 - 08/15/2011 05:00 PM |
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Is there a good reason not to have a muzzle on the beginner and agressive/excitable dogs?
It seems like it would make things much easier on the stock as well as the handlers.
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Re: Cesar Millan and herding
[Re: Kadi_Thingvall ]
#341710 - 08/15/2011 09:19 PM |
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Malinois? I've seen more excused from trials then actually finish a run due to harassing or seriously injuring the stock. Ive seen more Mals kill stock then any other breed as well, Mal pups as well. I witnessed a near drowing of a Mal that would let go of the sheep. They stuck a hose in the dogs mouth/nose, and it still took a while to break the grip. Unfortunately, very few trainers around here will work with Mals because of that. I'm one of the rare who will and do.
What part of the country are you in? I'm curious since I herd with Malinois, well I did, I'm taking a break right now. I've heard from various people about Malinois killing sheep, but it's not something I've seen in my area, I'm not doubting it has happened, just curious where/what dogs since it seems to be an issue in other areas.
Then again in my area I can't recall ever seeing a sheep killed in a trial, or even seriously injured, it just doesn't seem to be a common occurance. I have seen a few dogs attack a sheep and not let go without human physical interference, and lots of dogs that harassed/chased stock vs actual herding.
Im only a few hours away from you.
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