Does anyone think that alot of this has been brought on to gain some leverage for the World Cup of Schutzhund? Being they are the AKC and the FCI will only allow one member per country, if this does come to play,where will USA be left? The AKC has started to have a Schutzhund trial at thier Schutzhund Invatitional; this all looks like an attempt to push the AWDF and USA out into the cold, and it may work.

While they may say the standard is the same, the judging may be weaker to allow a broader member base to compete. Same as in Germany with the Show GSD.

As far as titles being earned elsewhere- do they not allow now USA judges in WDA?

Like Kevin originally said, I think this is a direct attempt to elbow out the AWDF and the USA for FCI recognition.

I could see the AKC using the assoc with the GSDCA-WDA as a means to influence their postion with the SV and possibly the FCI, when it comes to SchH & the GSD.

I see the AKC involvement in SchH, IPO, Ringsports etc. as an enormous quagmire of regristration fees and watered down events and certifications. Do what you can to resist this movement.

I will be cold and dead before I participate in any AKC run protection sports.

VanCamp
I want you to think about this.
If AKC is sucessful, You become a trial helper. After you get through with the ASS dogs, lets see how many "wanna be" Sch people there are left. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> The scout troops and other organizations that volunter for cleanup duty will be awfully busy OUTSIDE your ring with spectators. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Well, let's see. The ACK taking on a protection activity. This should be wonderful for the dogs. Look at the bang up job they do w/conformation. And ACK herding is surely a better test of the dog than that HGH business.

And, nothing has helped purebreds more than ACK recognition, right?

Can we expect ACK to come up w/some version of Sch that ambreds can succeed at??? Try to conjure up the visual on *that*.

Having had some involvement in the AKC Herding "C" (tending)course, I would like to add a few insights.

Yes, I suppose one could say that it is a 'watered' down version of the HGH if one is looking at the number of sheep used. The minimum for AKC "C" course is 20 sheep BUT they do encourage the larger number (I beleive the book says up to 80). The biggest problem is finding that number of sheep (flock) in North America that are used to being worked in this fashion. It is important that the sheep are a flock! You cannot just stick several different flocks together for the higher amount of numbers.

Most (not all) of the dogs I have seen in "C" course are capable of doing the HGH and in fact several of them do have this title as well.

Can you take a mediocre dog and get the "C" course title? Yes, but I have also seen some mediocre dogs with schutzhund titles as well. One only has to attend some Sieger Nationals and see how some of the showline gsd's (with Sch 3 titles) do on their protection phase before the conformation show to prove my point.

It is not easy to take a gsd with correct temperament and work it on 20 sheep instead of 300! It does take a lot of work and training to get them to a piont where they can be reliable. But, it can be done.

I would love to see more opportunity in North America for the HGH vs "C" course, but it is not likely to happen. I think if people really understood what was needed in temperament, drive, nerve etc in a gsd to work a large number of sheep we would not have to come down so hard on people who are at least trying to keep thier dog/breed true to its origins by working dogs in "C" course. Many people who do know and understand these qualities would be able to see/tell which dogs working in "c" course were also capable of doing the HGH. (there are always exceptions of course).

It cannot really work. Where will be all the trainers and helpers from?

 Quote:

I think this is a direct attempt to elbow out the AWDF and the USA for FCI recognition.

John, not to be picky (which of course is a prelude to being exactly that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ), but what I read in Kevin's note is that since FCI recognizes only one overarching body for the breed clubs per country (and here it has a working realtionship with the AKC) and AKC only recognizes only one Breed Club/breed (GSDCA), all other oganizations are kinda left out in the cold already.

I wonder if the pressure is not coming from the other side: the FCI/SV working to get the AKC on board with the International standard, which will require them to recognise (dare they even say it?)... "protection" as part of a temperament test.

Of course I could be all wet on this (grabbing the shower cap...). Wouldn't be there first time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I would imagine that they are going to have to get on board if they want to get into the FCI and for the GSDCA WDA to soley keep sending a team to the WUSV.

 Quote:

Originally posted by VanCamp:
I will be cold and dead before I participate in any AKC run protection sports.

awww c'mon, make you a deal...

you work the front half, I'll work the back half. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

any ASS types that make it through you, I'll surely make break and run <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />