Drew,
Sounds like you do have some resources available. My advice is not to send your dog away to have her training finished by someone else. It is better to do it yourself and learn something with the help of knowledgeable people. You may not know what kind of irreversable damage other trainers might inflict. Also, just because she performs well for someone else doesnt neccesarily mean she will do the same for you. Dogs have a knack for figuring out who means business and who can be bullied or ignored. Good luck......Howard

That is pretty much how my trainer put it, and he added that I have a bond from getting her as a puppy....he doesn't want to see that bond compromised. He also questions that she would perform for someone else.....she is stubborn, very dominant.......too many unknowns.....

He is actually going to lace some toys with narcotics scent for me to start working with next week. I actually save money because I don't have to by the scent pad or the pseudo narcs. I can also call him at any time to ask questions.....etc......it really is a good deal. For the time being until I meet with him again, I continue on the basics....

What it boils down to, is I am the type that wants it all.....and NOW! This is a learning process......my patience gets tested....This judge has told me that the dog will be certifiable and that I should seek an agency sponsorship for the K9 certification training. In the mean time he said I should keep going the way I am....and it will all come together when the time is right.

So back to the stress threshold, another question has been eating at me....

Though we try to work into defense, the helpers aren't at a point where it is a good idea to push it......when Nika gets a bite, it is for the most part deep, and clean (needs some polishing up though), but she tends to come off too easy, as though she is anticipating the off command. She actually won't let go unless I tell her to, and usually it is a clean release, but when I want to choke her off a bite, to keep that drive at a maximum, she will immediately let go, typically before I even get the proper grip on the collar. She anticipates I want her to release, so as soon as I put my hand on the collar, she will release.....what might I do to keep that from happening? Is it something that the helper can control, by adding more of a fight?

I am thinking that much of my frustration boils down to lack of experienced helpers......can I get a witness......... :rolleyes:

I think the first thing you need to do is find someone with plenty of experience and stop seeing what works. If the dog is a good dog and you don't have the direction needed you will only wind up frustrated or wrecking what could have been a good dog.

Find a good trainer, find a good decoy. Stop working with someone who can not get the dog to perform at the level you need the dog at. There's no point in working if you are not going to be making progress.

While you may be somewhere with limited resources if you want the dog and yourself to reach an end goal you may have to make some sacrifice of time and perhaps $ to get with the correct people.

Sometimes not training at all is better than bad training on a regular basis.

As you never answered it in you last post, what state are you in? Perhaps folks here can get you to the right people if we knew where you were.

Josh,

Good post. I actually did answer where I was at.....Southern Utah. 2 Hours north of Vegas, and 3 1/2 south of SLC. Thanks

Originally posted by Drew Corry:

I actually did answer where I was at.....Southern Utah. 2 Hours north of Vegas, and 3 1/2 south of SLC. The middle of no where!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Drew , I was watching this tread, for some time:

So today I have some time, and would like to point out that a dog with nerves that strong, is either cast in cement or deaf and blind, but I do not whant to offend you so I will be creative, by saying that you should look at some pre- requsates for PP training

Selection of the proper dog that will benefit from this type of training, factors to look at:

Are nerves, to understand nerves one needs to understand the mind of a dog and what effects it- It is also important to understand that a dog trained in this fashion has two sides to his emotional state; Fear of the un-know the other side is excitement or agitated ness, or stressors.

Reactivity – to environmental stimulus has another bearing on a dog, even though generally excepted that weeks 8 to 14 forms the dog not much training can be done here – a lot of socialisation can be done how ever- but with ages three to ten months which are the most important time to un-learn natural fear of or reactive fear to stimulus, a specially in German shepherds, by a process of generalisation of fear levels, or rather threat levels, by introducing stress at the relevant time the dog is conditioned that all threat is equal to zero pain.

Conflict creates anxiety in the dogs mind. So the aim is not to confuse the dog with bad stimulus during training always positive-positive, - so if you whant to drag your dog across the line the dog might be so scared that it freezes up- but you read it as no fear response- every training session ends this way. I have yet to see a fail proof training method, Some thing to keep in mind - Bad training well - I have never heard of a trainer that said I will be training the same exact way he did with his first dog right to his very last.

Sorry I missed that in you post Drew. If you are only 2 hours from Vegas you are far from nowhere. I'm sure many on here drive 2 hours one way to go train with qualified people. If you can drive to LV in 2 hours I can put you in touch with some VERY qualified people who will be happy to help you. If I was in your shoes, a 2 hour drive would be the least of my worries.

The folks I know will not even charge you for their time if you are a LEO as I am assuming you are by the post.

I think driving 2 hours one way would be far better than wasting 2 hours with a decoy who can not give you the results you need.

If you want to contact the folks in LV let me know in a email or PM and I will give you the info.

Kevin,

Sounds like you've been to good old Cedar City, Utah before <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Josh....I am actually not a LEO. I own a contract security company, and am working towards my degree in Criminal Justice. I also work at a law firm. I have been through the police academy though. I decided to pursue my education an put the LEO testing on hold for the time being.

Reinier, good comments.

So basically I ought to be certain I am working with a qualified helper, one than can produce the proper drive with the dog, or not at all. I do much of the maintenance on the grip myself, working with tugs and sleeves.....I suppose it is not that different from what I am doing now......continued thoughts and suggestions?

Just wanted to make a comment on Reiner's comments.Reiner says tat not much training can be done from 8 to 14 weeks accept for socialization. The ages 6 to 16 weeks are actually the most impresionable time in a dogs life. A lot can be done and taught during this time period other than socialization.Anything that you can get accomplished during this time period can be very reliable during the rest of the dogs life, that is assuming you continue to work with the dog.Its called imprinting.

David

Yes, but we do no formal training here 8 to 14 weeks / and I am sure no other PP and PD trainers either – we build drives and socialise only - that’s what we do – I know about the golden window you speak of