Here are my 2 cents, for what they're worth.

If you don't have kids, your viewpoint will be different than if you do have kids.

You may be more tolerant of kid aggression because you can control it or work through it on your own time at your leisure, in the meantime ensuring that the dog doesn't come into contact with a child.

As a parent, I can tell you that if my dog REGULARLY or FREQUENTLY nipped (or bit) at a child (esp. my child) and that dog lived with a child then I would have no tolerance.

If this was a single incident, or one where the child was antagonizing the dog, then I would have a different opinion altogether.

To me it sounds as if this dog's aggression is escalating, has occurred several times, and is occurring for no apparent reason at multiple children. All 3 items spell disaster for a dog that lives with children.

Because I'm not a big fan of assumptions, I (personally) would hate to give a dog away ASSuming that it would never come into contact with a child.

After all, look at the pit bull that went into a neighbor’s yard with children and maimed the little girl playing there. I know that it was a pit bull (and I have a purebred show and stud quality intact APBT) but that doesn't mean that it can't happen with a GSD.

QUOTE: Also, is it fair to ask after the size, actions and demeanor of these children and the circumstances surrounding these (near) bite attempts. END

In a word, NO.

IMO, the excuses about "the kids should've done this" or "he was eating" come out after a tragedy has occurred.

Trying to bite the child's face is enough info for me when asked whether the dog should be removed from a home with kids.

Some people thought the dog should be placed in a no-children home and some thought there could never be a no-children guarantee and that he should be humanely euthanized.

"Take-no-chances" does not necessarily mean "draconian."

 Quote:

Is there any concern for what level/how severe this dog's bite is? I may be using the wrong terminology, but if the dog is just snapping at a perceived annoyance vs. descent-into-lizard-Brain-no-stopping-till-it's-dead aggression, arent the calls to put this dog down fairly draconian? Also, is it fair to ask after the size, actions and demeanor of these children and the circumstances surrounding these (near) bite attempts.

Yes and No

In deciding whether or not to keep the dog in the home, IMO no.

In deciding whether or not to train/rehab the dog, yes.

I appreciate the input from people more knowledgeable than me.

Let me give you a reader's digest of the history and temperament of this dog. As background I have a stay at home wife, a 7 year old daughter and a 2 year old daughter. Most kids that come to my house are all under 10 and everybody (including my kids) are very respectful of this dog. You would be too if you saw him <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

- Got him from a nice breeder. He offered to take the dog back and give me a refund if anything went wrong. I don't take the commitment to a dog lightly so once I'm the owner I assume full responsibility.
- I'm not an idiot when it comes to dog behavior and fundamentally why they do certain things. I'm no expert, but I'm not the guy looking at the cute puppies in the pet store. However, I'm completely willing to admit that this dog is over my head.
- He was an aggressive pup (which didn't manifest itself until he became comfortable in my house). He was very dominant and liked to nip and herd. Because of this dominance I had him neutered at 6 mos. of age. I wanted to nip this in the bud. The "drive by" nippings stopped by the age of about 10 mos.
- He's never actually taken a bite out of anyone. He did the puppy biting thing, but I'm discounting this as youthful exuberance.
- In June, at about 1 year of age, was the first time he snapped at a little girl. For me this was strikes 1, 2, and most of 3. Me and the child's parent were completely stunned. An over-sized GSD's jaws lunged and closed a millimeter away from this girls nose. Much crying ensued. Her head was at the same level as the dog. I don't think Jerry (the dog's name is Jerry) was trying to bite her, but if his timing was off, or the girl made a step forward he would have bit her face. This instance alone is unacceptable to me, but I didn't condemn him at this point because the dog was under some stress a while before the incident. Many kids were running around and he was leashed to a tree for a while. But he was with me when the snap occurred and he appeared to be calm at the time. Since the first snap was a unique situation I took a mental note thought I would "wait and see".
- He snapped at another small girl last weekend. This one wasn't nearly as close and was definitely a "warning" snap. However, he was in my house around adults in a situation that shouldn't be stressful.
- He's also started making aggressive movements (a bark and a sort of "half lunge) towards my 2 year old when he's in his crate and she approaches.

At this point, it's obvious to me that this particular dog wasn't right for my family. Hindsight is great, but it doesn't change my current predicament. If he had the right handler things may have turned out differently, but maybe not. I guess you can never know. Under the wrong circumstances any dog could hurt a child, but I think my chances are worse with Jerry and I am not a big gambler. He's obedient, but doesn't always listen with distractions and I hate the idea of keeping him caged almost all the time. I don't have property where I can keep him separate from my kids or the constant stream of kids running through my house.

This totally sucks.

When you start a thread with a question like this you generally already know the answer. I don't think this dog will get placed quickly and his temperment probably spiral downwards.

George speaking strictly from a legal stand point you have got to get rid of that dog! One bite and you could be in bankruptcy. I mean how much are you willing to bet that dog will not bite a child, ten thousand, twenty thousand a hundred thousand. Worse than that, you would have to live with the knowlege that a child is caring around the scars (assuming they live)that you could have prevented.

As for giving away a dog like this I think you are just giving your problems to another person who may not be as responsible as you. This dog needs to be put down. Yes it is sad but it is not near as sad as seeing a childs face ripped open. Yes it sucks but it does not suck as much as a jury returning a million dollar verdict against you. I have had cases like this and you do not want to be one of them. Sorry but I think you have only one option and that is a one way trip to the vet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

Wow, despite not knowing anyone or any dog in this thread I am so invested in Jerry's future! i wish I had a solution! It seems the consensus is against me re: this dog's prospects.

I hurt for you, George. It sounds like you've done all you can.

I would agree with the advice that Mike gave in his post.

Just one question...when the dog does this (snaps, bites, whatever), what action did you take? Is this dog on a prong collar, is this dog always on a leash (Since you mentioned that he does not do his obedience under distraction then he should still always be on a aleash)? Did you choke out the dog? Or was he just put away in his crate with no action on your part?

All these suggestions are very good and all, but at the end of the day the dog is not only a poor family pet, but a poor example of the breed.

One (kids and adults included) should not have to tip toe around any dog, nor "try this" or "try that" when a kids welfare is at stake. It only takes ONE time,... just once.. is it worth it? Hell no.

A dog around kids should be 120% with anything and everything, if it isn't - get rid. Either to doggy heaven or a another home. (I personally will not risk rehoming a dog simply because I cannot trust other people to be responsible and even if that dog is out of my hands, and it bit a kid, in my mind I could have prevented it)

Sammy (the one with a 30 yr old scar all the way down one side of her face from a dog bite as a kid..) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />