Kristel Smart wrote 10/31/2006 11:50 AM Re: Thoughts On Ear Cropping [Re: susan tuck ] #116662 - 10/31/2006 11:50 AM
Kristel Smart Webboard User Reg: 10-03-2006 Posts: 1548 Loc: Vermont Offline	That's a great question; Roger, what experience do you have with ear-cropping? I'm curious. Steve; I don't know if you've heard of them but the Seth Yacovone band used to have a song about how Bob Barker should be neutered AND spayed <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Candi, I hear ya. I really, really do <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Kristel Smart wrote 10/31/2006 11:54 AM Re: Thoughts On Ear Cropping [Re: Roger Blowers ] #116663 - 10/31/2006 11:54 AM
Kristel Smart Webboard User Reg: 10-03-2006 Posts: 1548 Loc: Vermont Offline	Oops, it's going so fast my question was answered before I asked it. So....not really any experience with ear-cropping? Interesting. Did you know that docking/dew-claw removal is done WITHOUT anesthesia? But this you're okay with?
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Connie Sutherland wrote 10/31/2006 11:59 AM Re: Thoughts On Ear Cropping [Re: Kristel Smart ] #116664 - 10/31/2006 11:59 AM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	I'm curious about why the question of a cosmetic surgery has to be compared over and over to surgeries or procedures that are not cosmetic in nature? Whether or not one thinks highly of neutering, docking, dew-claw removal ........ why is it relevant? It seems like such faulty reasoning. They might each be well worth discussing, but to compare a strictly-cosmetic procedure to any of them seems kind of red-herring-ish. P.S. It would be enlightening if a discussion of a cosmetic procedure stuck to cosmetic procedures. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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susan tuck wrote 10/31/2006 12:05 PM Re: Thoughts On Ear Cropping [Re: Roger Blowers ] #116665 - 10/31/2006 12:05 PM
susan tuck Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2006 Posts: 1608 Loc: Cali & Wash State Offline	I think the issue is "is ear cropping cruel"? I do not think this procedure is cruel because the amount of pain the dogs go through is minimal. How do I know that? Well, I happen to know a Trekkie who was really hooked on the Spock character & had his ears done. Yes, I know, I have weird friends! The thing is, to me, neutering dogs is as cruel as cropping ears is to you, unless the dog has a medical condition which requires the surgery. I think if your argument is going to hold up, it should be taken to its logical conclusion & must include other procedures. That being said, I wouldn't label you as a cruel person for neutering your dog. I think we need to take into consideration how much pain the dog is in & what if any, trauma is caused.
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Kristel Smart wrote 10/31/2006 12:06 PM Re: Thoughts On Ear Cropping [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #116666 - 10/31/2006 12:06 PM
Kristel Smart Webboard User Reg: 10-03-2006 Posts: 1548 Loc: Vermont Offline	It's not red-herring-ish if the surgical necessity is subjective. What one person feels is critical, another may not. I think the surgical comparisons are more about creating a perspective. HOW horrible is ear-cropping relative to other common surgical procedures? It's not even a blip on the radar, which I think is the point.
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Roger Blowers wrote 10/31/2006 12:09 PM Re: Thoughts On Ear Cropping [Re: susan tuck ] #116667 - 10/31/2006 12:09 PM
Roger Blowers Webboard User Reg: 05-30-2005 Posts: 115 Loc: Costa Blanca, Spain Offline	Which of us was being patronising? Roger
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Connie Sutherland wrote 10/31/2006 12:12 PM Re: Thoughts On Ear Cropping [Re: Kristel Smart ] #116668 - 10/31/2006 12:12 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: It's not red-herring-ish if the surgical necessity is subjective. What one person feels is critical, another may not. I think the surgical comparisons are more about creating a perspective. HOW horrible is ear-cropping relative to other common surgical procedures? It's not even a blip on the radar, which I think is the point. OK, I get that. If I draw a line between cosmetic and not, then even procedures that are fought over, debated, and under constant scrutiny, but that have some present-time health reason behind them, will always be on one side of that line in my head, while those done for cosmetic reasons alone will be on the other. Those two sides, for me, don't compare well in a discussion. But if I have a different line, then this is no longer true. OK. I do get that. I'm out. I was having a different discussion. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Kristel Smart wrote 10/31/2006 12:15 PM Re: Thoughts On Ear Cropping [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #116669 - 10/31/2006 12:15 PM
Kristel Smart Webboard User Reg: 10-03-2006 Posts: 1548 Loc: Vermont Offline	Exactly. And (God help us) everbody has their own line <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
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MauricioVilches wrote 10/31/2006 12:30 PM Re: Thoughts On Ear Cropping [Re: Roger Blowers ] #116670 - 10/31/2006 12:30 PM
MauricioVilches Webboard User Reg: 10-19-2006 Posts: 28 Loc: Offline	I'm glad to see that Roger made his way over to this discussion thread. Roger, like i had stated in my earlier thread in the "ear cropping" section, ear cropping and docking was only band in England and other European nations in the very late 90's early 00's. How is it then, that you haven't seen cropped doberman's before, even at shows? I believe that of the many reasons you "should no more" about ear cropping and the procedure is because of the various sweeping statements you have made regarding the inhumanity of the procedure. You cannot strongly advocate one position, while disregarding another altogether. Regards, Mauricio Vilches
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susan tuck wrote 10/31/2006 12:33 PM Re: Thoughts On Ear Cropping [Re: Roger Blowers ] #116671 - 10/31/2006 12:33 PM
susan tuck Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2006 Posts: 1608 Loc: Cali & Wash State Offline	Oh you saw that did you? <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> After I read it, I changed the whole thing. I took it out, but not soon enough. My bad. You didn't deserve it & the only thing acomplished by it was I made myself look like a jerk. Would you please accept my appology? Isn't it funny how some things push our hot buttons, for no good reason!
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