I was being facetious in my last post, which I probably shouldn't have. Sorry.

I came here to ask if anyone thought that Gator giving no threat display before latching onto the other dog was an indicator of an unstable temperment,as some people on other boards have indicated. So far only 2 people here have really addressed that question.

As for the muzzle thing, all I can tell y'all is that I don't feel a need to muzzle Gator. His only encounters will be with unleashed dogs in remote areas.

No one knows when a dog will bite. It may take a HUGE amount of provocation to make a dog bite, but the potential is always there. And any dog will fight. Suppose Gator was the off leash dog and ran up and attacked your dog....your dog would most likely defend itself. So since ALL dogs have the potential to bite and fight, I guess all dogs would be muzzled in public in a perfect world.I wonder how many of the folks here who have turned this thread into a "that dog should always be muzzled" fight muzzle their own dogs. And if not, why?

I thank those of you who addressed my question regarding temperment. I thank those of you who gave any advice at all in a constructive manner.I also thank those who expressed an understanding of my final wishes for my animals. Especially those who felt I made the right decision. It's always a good feeling to have your actions approved of.

And I just want to say that in the 3 places I've gone to for feedback on this situation, I've met people who need a muzzle far worse than my dog.

Once again, it was not my intent to start arguements here.

Short answer, threat displays are to prevent fighting and injury in animals. It is ritualized aggression. Pits were bred to fight, hence no threat display. Any animal that displayed was considered weak and eliminated from the gene pool. So no threat display in a Pit is breed appropriate.

It isn't uncommon for Pit Bulls to be muzzled.

http://www.prbc.net/breedspecific.html

If your dog (of any breed) shows any tendancy towards aggression it should be muzzled in public. If that is too hard to understand, let me explain it clearly for you:

When a dog bites, it is in control. You, the owner, MUST have control at all times. If you can't uphold this simple rule, you really have no business owning one.

By being an irresponsible owner, you bring down the rest of us. No matter how hard we try, we can't erase the damge you've done. Once BSL is in effect, that's it.

And just how many laws does a society really need?
Should there be a law that requires us to use the brains God gave us?

Michelle, unless you're on an uninhabitated island, chances are you will encounter someone at some point. And don't forget that Gator didn't even have a real grip on the other dog. If he had, all the ear-tugging in the world wouldn't have helped. Do you carry a breaking stick?

You would think that, but in alot of States, my state of Texas included, you have what is called proportionate responsibility. You will have to check your state to see what applies to you.

What that means is that you will be required to pay your proportionate share e.g. if the jury finds the unleashed guy 50% at fault and you 50% at fault you still are required to pay 50% of the judgment. In Texas if the plaintiff is more than 50% responsible then he is barred from recovery. Some states do not have any bar. Somes states bar recovery when the plaintiff is only one percent negligent.

I have tried well over a hundred jury trials (and still cannot spell or type) and one thing is for sure, no matter what state you are in when you put your fate in the hands of 12 strangers there is no telling what will happen although usually the jury gets it right. I mean look at the varied opinions and reactions just on this one little question. Anyway I do not mean to sound like a know it all but this is something that could cause you serious problem.

What if he manages to jerk the leash out of your hand? What if the leash or collar breaks?

To me, there is a "legal" responsibility and then there is an "ethical" responsibility; they don't always mesh. IMO, you know what your dog is capable of, and he actually *enjoys* it. This is not a learned response or a fear reaction that can be managed or changed. This is a dog who *likes* to fight other dogs and is capable of doing a great amount of damage.

I think it's a lot easier to explain to people that your dog is not muzzled because he is dangerous to people, and in fact LOVES people, but rather, is muzzled because he is dog aggressive, than it is to yell over at someone who's dog is barreling full steam over to "Say Hi" that your dog is not friendly (I have a dog aggressive dog myself and have been put in this position more times than I like to think about.) and expect them to be able to get control over their dog. At least with a muzzle on, your dog will not be able to get hold of their dog and do any damage.

Whether or not you would be "legally" responsible if 83 year old Mrs. Smith's Bichon Frise or little Timmy's lab mix was seriously injured or killed by Gator, wouldn't you feel at least a little bit of responsibility since you knew what Gator was capable of?

Any tendancy toward aggression, or shows aggression?

What do you define as aggression? Lunging, growling, teeth baring?

A hard stare? A slight puckering of the lips? Stillness? Piloerection?

And how do you identify a dog who has a tendancy to aggression without it showing aggressive threat displays?

Thank you Melissa, for addressing the issue I needed help with. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What about the event of a non friendly dog bounding over to kick your dog's butt, and is not scared away by you (this happened to me)? Now there is another problem, the dog has learned a fear response, because it was unable to defend itself in an attack. Joe/Jane Idiot with the intact unleashed Rott meets muzzled Pit. A pit with a strong defensive response toward anything would be a scary thing to see.

To be honest with you, I would never muzzle my dog if there were the possibility of any off leash encounter at all.

I walk my 2 GS in what best described as a huge open field. This place isnt over populated with dog walkers, in fact at any one time there are if any no more than 4 other dogs being walked, and the advantage is that you can see them all at any one time.
Here i walk my dogs of the leash and un muzzled, and my dogs aren't really dog freindly. By this I mean that they ignore all dog until one approaches them at which point they will attack. So if im walking and i see other dogs and owners walking in my direction i leash my dogs and walk in the opposite direction or i'll put them in a down until the others pass.
Now that should be enough warning for owners of other dogs to keep them away, if their dogs come up to us then thats there look out. I never assume that other peoples dogs are freindly because ive come across pleanty that arent.
If my dogs bite their dog because it gets to close then thats their fault not mine - i'll be damned if im going to muzzle my dogs becasue if a big ugly unfriendly comes over to pay a vist then what use are my dogs if they are muzzled? they will be defensless against attacks - and id prefere not to roll around on the ground with a 100LB rotty, unfortunalty in the uk we dont have the luxury of being strapped with a berreta and mace spray

sorry if that didnt read well, i posted it by mistake before editing it - forgive my spelling.

What im trying to say is, you have to be responsible with your dog - even if it is the most friendly dog in the world - this doesnt mean that everybody elses is.

When my eldest was less than a year old, he was this friendly dog and I was naive and let him run up to other dogs - until the one time he got attacked. Now i accepted responsibility for this, since it was my dog that approached the unknown dog.

How would you react if another human came running towards you if you were out walking - I guarantee that you wouldnt open your arms and embrace the oncomer in a warm hug - your own fight or flight instincts would kick in. Why should you expect your dog to do any differently?

There responsiblity lies with the owner of the unleashed dog.