Quote: ana kozlowsky

Michael Ellis' Opening Lecture in his School Course on the Proper Use of the Electric Collar. A must see for anybody who engages in heated discussions about e-collar use on web forums

Excellent link. I forgot about that clip. "Escape/avoidance" training is not used exactly the same way by everyone; it's good to have definitions clear.

In the first M. Ellis link here (page one of this thread), in which I think he says something like "the e-collar would not be used unless and until the dog has clear understanding of the behavior wanted," that is the opposite of what I mean by escape/avoidance.

http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/6-7-10-news.flv

There is some very interesting information at about 4.3 min. into this video by Michael on avoidance/escape training. He discusses which method of "correction" has been scientifically determined to be the most stressful on a group of highly motivated mals... prong correction, ecollar or withholding the reward.

bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.... (hummed to the Jeopardy theme song...)

Al, great training, awesome dogs!

I have absolutely no problem with e collar training. I started using it for a few sessions but decided that my dogs training and my level of experience have not reached right place for it yet. I wouldn't rule it out. Its more a "maybe, someday" at this point.

I saw a video on here about how proper e collar training is actually less stressful for the dog than training with a prong. I believe that. It makes sense to me because it involves less cofrontation.

It does have its pitfalls.

It is a terrible tool for contol freaks. I knew a guy who paid over a thousand dollars to learn e collar training from an escape trainer. He started to treat the dog as if he were a remote control toy. Everything the dog did would be met with a command and stimulation. The poor thing couldn't even sniff a tree!

I also think its a tool where the dog really needs one handler. I know a married couple that use one for their young GSD. They are both very fair to the dog, but the husband is much quicker to correct. That has to be confusing.

A super basic question - I would think there would be some personality types for whom an e-collar would be completely contraindicated, for example a fearful
or timid dog. Is that true?

Barbara you are 100% correct, my ignorance on e-collar use is vast - what do i plan to do about it; nothing. i will continue to discourage their use in evry type of forum i can except LEO as mentioned.

Al what do you want a video of; if yr training was solid you would not need to correct at a distance as your dog should have not been in an environment to fail.

psychology studies have shown the easier it is to inflict pain on another human at greater distances with remote tools etc the more higher the likelyhood of inflicting the pain and the greater intensity of the pain likely to be inflicted up to the point of simulated death (in a double blind study)- human psychological fact, armies know all about this.


of course a good trainer can use one humanely and to good effect no doubt about it.

it is having them available freely to the public even for the first dog they ever owned to be a house pet - why can't you see the problem.

its the same logic/argument as "guns don't kill people..."

Barbara. Too funny. You posted the video I was talking about while I was posting.

Great minds!

Lol.

 Quote: barbara schuler

http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/6-7-10-news.flv

There is some very interesting information at about 4.3 min. into this video by Michael on avoidance/escape training. He discusses which method of "correction" has been scientifically determined to be the most stressful on a group of highly motivated mals... prong correction, ecollar or withholding the reward.

bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.... (hummed to the Jeopardy theme song...)

Isn't this the same clip Ana linked us to on Page 1 here?

Yup, same clip Still a good one to watch twice though!

I didn't hear the info in the first video Ana linked on the introduction talk video - but it could have been further along in the same talk but just not shown on THAT video.

 Quote: peter cavallaro

Barbara you are 100% correct, my ignorance on e-collar use is vast

its the same logic/argument as "guns don't kill people..."

Well Peter, I personally think giving such a strong opinion on a topic you admit to being "vastly ignorant" is a bit counter productive. If you want to educate and inform people (hopefully the purpose of offering your advice) you might sway more opinions if it was on a topic you were at least partially well-versed. We are all here to learn however...

And I agree with you... many people who think guns kill people are also vastly ignorant. I've had them in my homes for 55 years now and they've been very well behaved and have not killed anyone. (A few squirrells have not been so fortunate, but my husband is to blame for that - not the guns.) JMHANVIO.