Drew

Are you training Nika for Nakc and Patrol all in the same time, or whats the story here???

Up to this point it has been only patrol.....in the next week or so we'll start the narcotics....when we do train it will be one discipline only per session, in other words no bites when we have focused on the detection....etc.

Drew,
I understand your desire to make your dog well rounded but you might want to think about putting this drug training on hold until you get the dogs' main training complete. In law enforcement, having a patrol dog is primary. Any drug or bomb etc certification is icing on the cake. When you have completed the patrol training satifactorily then that is when the odor work should come in. Dont get too much on your plate. Just my personal opinion, not saying it cant be done by an experienced handler....Howard

The narcotics detection training is in the works...I say in the next couple of weeks, but that is tentative. I will be meeting with my trainer around Thanksgiving.......he'll evaluate her at that time and if he feels she is ready then we'll start some basics......really it is up to him to point me in the right direction. He may feel we need to work more on the patrol areas....and he will be sure to tell me that if he feels that way.......I tend to get ahead of myself.....I am sure you have noticed.....I want it all and I want it now........my wife says that is a typical male......what can I say....I am passionate about this work......I am obsessed I suppose.

Okay.....news on the training session...

Absolutely the best training session I have seen thus far!

I started off by putting the dog on a pole in a foreign environment. I also had a completely foreign helper....in fact two brand new helpers....

Initially I had the dog on the pole....I hid behind a shed.....and had the helper approach from upwind. Nika actually saw me hide.....this was the best hiding place I could find though (atlease I thought).....As the helper approached he gave a very convincing acting job.....Nika was initially alert from his scent, but actually avoided when he came in full view......she immediately backed away as he came near her....she looked around for me and was very reluctant to engage, she seemed very stressed......at that point I came out of hiding and she immediately did a 180 wanting desperately to get at him.....at that point we reset.......no bite......she chased him off and was praised.

Throughout the evening I used both helpers.....and both did a great job....they were new, but they were very convincing and were actually making an effort to make the dog work ....I was coaching them while I kept the tie straight to make sure they were doing the right things......they listened and it went exceptionally well.

I noticed the bites were very deep, and from what I could tell more intense. I gave precise instructions to both helpers and they followed perfectly. We eased into different scenarios with her remaining on the tie......

Eventually after about 45 minutes of work, I decided to try the scenario with me being gone to see if anything would be different. I actually was able to get into a house and watch out the window. The dog did not know where I was, and had been waiting a couple of minutes alone (I did not wait long enough at first and should have found a different spot to watch).....I watched as she simply layed there and waited. The helper approached as he did in the beginning......this time the dog met him with full force.....she was chomping a the bit to get to him......she engaged and fought well.......I had the second helper do the same thing (I had been alternating helpers for each exercise) and she actually snapped the bungee cord when she lunged for her bite. Kind of surprised me.....It was a good quality cord....(key word is was).

After this, since we did not have another bungee cord, I would hold the leash and allow the bite on a short run by.....the two would struggle a bit and I would tell the dog to off.......the helpers would then run around to the front of the house (each helper did this exercise once) and I would let Nika give chase and bite. These bites were great.....she did not over shoot the helpers as in the past and got a solid bite the first time, both times.

To conclude, I allowed one of the helpers to use the stick on a bite.......the agitation stick was actually broken in two over the dog.......the helpers said of all the bites, this one in particular was the strongest....the dog seemed to want to take it to another level.

All in all I may have made a few mistakes because of my lack of experience....and maybe I did too much, but I must say if all of the training sessions go this way.....it will be all good!

Thanks for the advice.....keep it coming.

I should also add I had the helpers pull back to stretch out the tie....I then praised the hell out of the dog....they came back in, I watched the line.....so on and so forth....lots of praise, and much more vocal on my part.....

Drew,
Sounds like you had a good night. I winced though when I read that the agitation stick was broken over the dog. Fortunately she fought well through this experience and it wasnt negative enough for her to abandon the fight. Otherwise, sounds like you had some good, positive training and something was learned by you and the dog..........Howard

I figured that part would get a few winces......she has been worked with the stick many times before by my trainer over the past 6 months.....we have worked up to that point.....she is very accustomed to it and seems to thrive when it is taken to that level......she seems to almost view the stick factor as an added bonus.......I made some mistakes early off in 2002 when I began the bite work....one of them was using a stick....I just didn't know any better. Since that time (14+ months) I have learned a great deal about the correct method and timetable of doing things, though I get ahead of myself sometimes......regardless, she has been used to the agitation stick since the very beginning....although not necessarily the right way to start it out....it has turned out well.

I thought I would add to a comment earlier on the tie back being a bite builder.....I had mentioned that my dog tends to anticipate the release when I reach for her collar.....the past 3 weeks we have been tying her up and having the helper stretch the line on bites......by doing this I have noticed a few things....

1. Her bite is deeper and harder now leaving bruising through the sleeve

2. When she hits the helper, it is very hard, many times knocking the wind out of the helper

3. When she is coming in on a bite her mouth is wider open resulting in a more full bite

4. She is tending to fight a little harder each training session and her confidence is now visible where before it was hit and miss. The dog has always showed confidence, but not like this.....she is taking the fight to the helper, as Ed says.

I think many of my past problems (knock on wood) came down to my desire to get ahead of myself, and poor helpers.

During a training session last night the dog hit the helper so hard it stopped him dead in his tracks....he was coming in at near full speed.....I thought for sure someone was going to be hurt....I have never seen her hit so hard, and come in with such a full bite.....I was literally giddy....(for lack of better terms). The helper was cussing and gasping for air...

So about the anticipated release.....over the past few weeks, especially last night, she seemed to not anticipate it as much. I want her to remain on the bite simply because if I go to get her collar to excercise control over her, and the suspect was to remain non-compliant, I do not want her to let go.......after working primarily on the tie back over the past few weeks....she is now holding on to the sleeve and not letting go until choked off...or until I give her a command. She will still anticipate the release but typically when the subject is passive, which is okay for the most part, I think....am I going the right direction with my thoughts about the passive v. non-compliant helper, and the release of the sleeve? A little direction here, and we'll be on our way..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Drew, One comment and a little advice. You wrote that the helper came in at full speed and was met by the dog. This can be dangerous for the dog. If the helper came straight in, the dogs jaw can be broken at worst, or jammed badly enough to shut the dog down in the bitework department. She may only avoid that helper, or not want to bite at all.
My second dog ( who was an alligator and feared no-one) was jammed badly by a novice helper and refused to search for him in buidings or agressively attack him even though he loved to chew on decoys.
As far as your dog anticipating the out....dont cue her that it is coming. The command should be, The dogs' name and then the out command approx one second later. If no out, then correction. Your dog will take every second she can to get more enjoyment from the bite if you let her. Also, taking her off strong only kicks in her prey drive and the fight to keep whats hers. I reserve this maneuver for the street only so as to have control of the dog while there are other officers in the immediate vicinity taking the bad guy into custody.