Forgot to ask. While doing the bitework on the tie back, was the dog being outed while there was still pressure on the collar/harness?

Howard,....on the run when the dog and helper collided...the helper rolled his shoulder and upper torso to absorb some of the impact....had that not happened...then there could have been an injury...luckily he was smart enough to roll with the hit. Also, I had him come in at a slight angle on the run which helped as well.

Regarding the choke off.....the reason for it is as you stated...to exert greater control of the dog...and to keep the drive at its highest.....

Nika is not anticipating the release so much lately. Today I worked with my trainer and she only anticipated the release a couple of times.....primarily because the helper had dead armed each instance, but both times I actually had control of the collar but had not gone strong.....the other instances when I chose to choke her off the bite, she stayed on until she had to release.....worked out well.

On the tie back training she was outed while the line was still tight....when you say pressure on the collar, I assume you mean this. The helper stretched her back so the line was tight...I walked up the line and then choked her off.....the bite after that was harder according to the helper. My thinking on the strong release is two fold......exert physical control over the dog, and to maintain the drive, which maintains the deep and focused bite.

All in all my trainer stated the bite is far greater now than it was when we met last in August. He feels it is time to begin focusing more attention on detection and scent work.......

Drew,
I can almost see the logic in your thinking but lets look at the whole picture. First Id like to say, from what ive heard lately you have a decent helper so I wont pose anymore questions concerning that.
Secondly, I understand that you want to build the bite but you also dont want to create any problems either. If the dog is to be used for anything other than gaurding a junk yard, you are right...you need total control, but...in real life if a bad guy is fighting your dog she needs to stay in it. You arent going to go over to the dog and force her to let go when this perp is actively demonstrating willingness to continue fighting...then now YOU got to fight.
The dogs' fight/prey drive is in full gear and now you want her to let go? She is confused. Her natural instincts are driving her and the man that feeds her wants her to let go, thus the hesitation in the out, or as you state, anticipation of the out.
There are better ways to build bite intensity without destroying months of work.

Drew,
Just for clarification. The aforementioned was concerning the out when you have tension on the harness/collar and a physically active/fighting decoy. Sorry.

I should have clarified that I do not take the dog off the bite strong when the helper is fighting...I agree that if the perp is still fighting then the dog should continue also....it is logical that it would not be any other way.

I give the command for the helper to stand still and stop fighting the dog.....the helper does so...the dog wants to keep fighting......I step in and take her off hard with lots of praise afterwards.

Does this make a little more sense?

Drew,
My honest opinion is that you are creating a problem. In reality, total control of the dog means that she should obey you without you having to put hands on her. She should not be allowed to linger on the sleeve when the decoy has stopped fighting. You have taught her that she can stay engaged as long as she wants until she is physically removed. This is not a desireable trait. I believe that the strong out should be used in the problem solving stages of a dog with an out problem. Earlier in your posts you mentioned she had a clean out. Dont mess that up, its a pain in the butt to fix....Howard

That makes sense, I understand where you are coming from, and the last thing I want to do is mess up the clean out.....and honestly, since we started working the tie back more often her out is not as clean (great dog...S**t handler)......I will watch that in our next training sessions and will see what I can do to remedy that. Thanks for the advice.

Taking the dog off strong should not be seen as a means to teach your dog to out. No commands, simply choke the dog off. This allows the dog to stay in drive.

Drew don't be hard on yourself. By going back the poll and building your dog up it is natural to suffer some on the control end. As I see it there is a balancing act that takes place the entire dogs career. You build and build and in order to get contol you loose a little. This is a generalization. Some will say that if you train right you won't suffer in drive. If you use a lot of compulsion and don't train smart the drive will suffer.

Drew:
I just skimmed this thread; haven't caught everything.

1st impression? I absolutely admire people like you who lie awake at night trying to resolve training problems.

Concerning the sensitive lift off: I believe that lift offs should be 45% fakes and 45% should result in a rebite (with a dog as you've described yours). The remaining 10% should end in a chase-off. If a dog lets go voluntarily during a lift-off, it is an indication of submission to you. Not necessarily a bad thing, just something that you need to recognize and address.

Just 2 hours north of LV?? Come upstate compadre. Utah is the home of dog training. Nevada is where you you go if you need cheap entertainment!!!!!!!