Hi everyone,

I have a 3 1/2 month old rat terrier that is having some problems with his crate. He is bell trained (he rings a bell by the door when he needs to out out to the bathroom) and rarely (less than 5% of the time) will go inside. The problem is with the crate. He never goes no. 2 in the crate ever, but he pees in there at least half of the time. It is not an issue of time because it will happen after 10 mins sometime, but sometimes he will go for hours without an accident. I have tried large crate area to really small, combinations of toys and treats, kongs with peanut butter, towels, no towels, you name it. Nothings seems to make any difference. I can tell he doesnt like the crate despite all my efforts, which is probably the cause. What to do? Any advice will help.
Thanks,
Drew

Hi, Drew,

Have you seen this? http://leerburg.com/housebrk.htm


I'd start by making the crate very attractive (never a punishment, having it associated with treats, etc.) and taking the dog out to potty very very frequently so you can catch the good potty and mark and reward it like a lunatic.

A puppy pees in the crate because he doesn't quite get it that outdoor potty is the good potty.

I would also spend some time watching him in his crate for a while so you can see him lift his leg or squat, pick him up, take him out, and mark and praise him for good potty.

Thanks for the reply.
I have read that page, and many others here and on other sites as well. He definately does know that inside bathroom is bad and outside is good. As long as he is not in his crate he almost never goes inside the house. He will ring the bell by the door and do his business. The problem is that if I leave him in his crate and leave the house, he will pee in the crate almost every time. It is better some days, but he does this almost all of the time. I tried to leave him in the crate a whole lot while I was at home so he would accept that crate doesnt equal alone, but it didnt seem to work, because he still peed in the crate when I left. He will do it even if I leave for 5 minutes. What to do?

 Quote: Drew Bagot

Thanks for the reply.
I have read that page, and many others here and on other sites as well. He definately does know that inside bathroom is bad and outside is good. As long as he is not in his crate he almost never goes inside the house. He will ring the bell by the door and do his business. The problem is that if I leave him in his crate and leave the house, he will pee in the crate almost every time. It is better some days, but he does this almost all of the time. I tried to leave him in the crate a whole lot while I was at home so he would accept that crate doesnt equal alone, but it didnt seem to work, because he still peed in the crate when I left. He will do it even if I leave for 5 minutes. What to do?

You have a little work to do, but it will pay off.

1. Don't leave him in the crate without taking him out to pee first, and waiting until he goes;

2. Do a series of leaving (always calmly and casually) and coming right back;

3. Leave, hover by the door for one minute, then two minutes, and come back, until you catch him at the moment of squatting or lifting his leg, then take him out to pee, and mark, praise and treat like crazy.

JMO. There might be confusion with his inability to ring the bell in the crate. (I've never trained a bell before a crate. ) So you just need to get past that stumbling block. He'll get it. Maybe you can devote a weekend day to it. I betcha once he does get it, it will be very smooth, if he's that good already when he's outside the crate.

If you can teach the bell ringing, then you can teach anything IMHO. :-) My pup just stands by the door, which is better than not.

Is he old enough to hold it while you're away?

Have you completely cleaned out the crate so that there is no residual smell from urine (white vinegar will work)?

Thanks again for the input. Yea, he has successfully held it through the night a few times now in the crate which is pretty remarkable. That is usually about 8 hours so he definately CAN hold it, the problem is during the day he just chooses not to hold it. I have tried the small confinement periods a few times, but it didnt really seem to do much, he just got more and more ancy about going back as he realized it was getting longer each time. He never went in the crate while I was there no matter the confinement period, until I left. Is this something we will have to just grow out of? (He is almost 4 months) Or, and I know the answer is probably no, should I just try without the crate?
-Drew

I have not read all the posts, so if someone mentioned this, excuse me.

Have you cleaned the crate with odor neutrilizer?

 Quote: drew bagot

Thanks for the reply.
I have read that page, and many others here and on other sites as well. He definately does know that inside bathroom is bad and outside is good. As long as he is not in his crate he almost never goes inside the house.

I am new here, but since I have also bell trained I wanted to throw 2 cents in here ;P If he is going potty at all inside, he does not fully understand the housetraining concept. There is a difference in understanding that bell=outside=potty and "under no circumstances am I to potty in the house, even if I ring the bell and no one answers." It's a fine line, but that is exactly what the dog needs to understand. It's hard to realize that is what is going on, especially if someone always lets him out when he rings the bell. Know what I mean?

I think we are just getting to this point with Millie. She would have 1-2 accidents a month, and that is the reason. If we didn't answer the bell (which we did religiously in order to establish the bell training to begin with) she would potty near the door. We thought she was housetrained, but she wasn't. Now I make a habit of NOT answering the bell everytime, especially when I know she has just gone.

As for the pottying in the crate, it sounds like you have tried everything I would have suggested. I think it has to do with separation anxiety though, so hopefully being close to you at night will continue make it better. Good luck!

I wrote a 165 page e-book this spring. It addresses these issues - including bell ringing (which I 100% disagree with)

http://www.leerburg.com/housetrainingebook.htm

Here is the link.

I was going to ask why you don't listen to what Connie suggested.