Hi all,

I've searched but can't quite find the answer I'm after....

During our walks I let Teagan have a few mins 'free time' when she can sniff/pee/runabout - but this is always on a long 'tracking' line, about 10-15m in length.

When she's on this I used the old 'half-check' collar, which she sometimes ignores until I give a hard correction. The inconsistancy worries me a bit, but I'm more concerned about possible injury.

If she runs at full pelt after something and ignores a NO command, she'll hit the end of the line with some force.

Will having the line attached to the prong collar injure her? Or will that just count as a very hard 'self correction'?

Any ideas or experiences?

Thanks
Rob

Rob, I have problems with my little explosion, Bella, as well!

Perhaps you can find a place that is fenced in, so if she gets interested in something and darts off, you can let go and avoid that correction. Here in the US, most of the schools have fences around them.

Maybe you should shorten the line or get a shorter one until the dog learns not to stray too far away. When you are closer, it seems there is less of a chance the dog will forget about you. Also, the shorter the leash the more you can control the leash, and avoid the dog running to the end of the line and...eek!

I work with long lines all the time - my dogs are really never off of a line unless they are on an ecollar. What I do is put knots in the line so I can grab and hold on if my hand is sliding along the line, makes it easier to hold and grab.

For a dog that ignores a NO or a Here command, if they decide to take off running - depending on the dog I will let them hit the end of the line, but I may move forward as they do so as to slightly cushion the correction, generally I will hold the line close to my body until they reach then end and then I will extend my arms - it depends on how fast they are going. If you can correct her before she takes off - grab the line on one of your knots or as soon as she ignores you and give her a pop to remind her.

I use a long line with a prong attached. my rotti will be running about when aloud but can feel the lead tensing when he gets to the end and stops himself being self corrected. if he does brake the recall at say 5 meters i will time my second come so its a split second before he hits the end of the line. yes its a hard correction but he has brought it on himself. this has happened perhaps 6 times in 7 months under strong distraction (bolting deer, free running dogs!! etc) he has not sustained any injuries and it has not affetced him i.e. too hard a correction, wont play, eat etc.
hope this helps.

Thanks guys, that helps.

Jennifer, you didn't say what length lines you use, I'm guessing Andrew uses a 5m line.

I have knots tied in the 15m line - but if she's happy at one end then bolts to the other, that's a lot of line to grab before she hits the end.

She's been great on the prong collar so far, only needing a couple of L2-3 corrections to get a 'Sorry boss, what did you want again?' reaction

I might try getting a 5m line and using the prong so as to cut down her running distance, but it's a shame it'll cut back her 'free period'. I suppose I can always build it up again after she gets the hang of it, as Rick suggests.

Anyone tried that approach?

Rob we used a prong on the long line when we were starting sheep herding. My girl liked to hammer the sheep and rip out mouthfuls of wool in the process. So we tried the prong on the long line to lessen the gripping issues we were experiencing.

I was really worried about nailing her while she was at full clip so I made sure it was on the dead ring so it didn't have the really fast snappy action of the live ring.

She nailed herself once or twice but I tried to temper the zing of the prong the same way as Jennifer by letting my arm action extend to lessen the severity of the correction. Though the trainer stepped on the line once while she was at a gallop to stop her for pounding on one sheep and the correction was probably a 10+! She didn't go into avoidance, though she was leery of the trainer afterwards a bit but was back working the sheep after 30 sec or so of a "what was that?" look. So to me it did what it was supposed to do. She is a lot more well mannered around the sheep now for sure.

The only thing that bothers me about using the prong on the long line is trying to time the verbal cue so that the dog is just not getting automatically corrected for nothing. With us working sheep it was one thing (gripping sheep) but playing with a dog in a park, what is the dog getting corrected for when it gets to the end of the line? If you give the dog 3m or 10m where is the limit? The dog doesn't know where it is so you as the handler have to make sure the dog knows or you are failing the dog.

I use Mr Frawley's guide to corrections http://leerburg.com/corrections.htm as my own guide on the amount of correction I would/should give my dog for a specific scenario. If I couldn't control the prong on a long line to give fair corrections to the dog then I wouldn't use it ... as simple as that.

Sorry Rob I reread my post and it is very obvious how hurried and tired I was! I'm surprised you got anything out of that at all

I use different lengths of long lines - I make my own. I have used prong with long lines up to 50 feet, but the lines are very light (I use MCR or cotton webbing) and I also make small handles every 10 feet and knots every 5. I have lines ranging in length from 10 to 50 feet, in 5ft increments. (10, 15, 20.... etc)

I also use the dead ring when I am getting a dog used to long lines with a prong. When it comes to dogs learning their limits, it has less to do with the actual distance than it has to do with OB. If I say come here, that means come here. If I say no, that means no - how far away the dog is doesn't matter for me. One thing might be paying more close attention to Teagan and the things going on around you. You need to catch her with a No before she starts taking off, if you don't or she still ignores you a correction should follow.

Keep your hands on the line and leave enough slack that she can move about when she is being allowed to, without it dragging or looping on the ground. When she moves closer to you, reel in the line, if she moves further from you while on her free time (and not disobeying in her movement) then feed out the line from your hands, but always keep track of it. This will help make sure she can't just charge to the end of a long line and get a correction that is too hard or ill-timed. By always having the line at hand you can more easily correct her when you need to, and it gets her used to the collar and the fact that she can't ignore you without getting a correction.

Eventually you can be a little more lax with your line, but for a while it will be like fishing. Even after my dogs have been on a long line for a year or more I never stop watching them and whats going on around us. Even when my dogs are let out to go to the bathroom in the fenced backyard I have them on a line or ecollar about 90% of the time. I don't give my dogs any chances to ignore a recall. The 10% they are out with no ecollar or me and a long line, I don't call them in - I open the door and let them hear the clang of their metal bowls as I prepare their meal. They know when they don't have a line on/when I am not in the yard with them, that as soon as I open that door again they will be getting fed shortly so they do their business and wait nicely at the door. I started doing this because I felt like an @$$ when a dog didn't come when called in my own yard and because we have a full acre fenced it was not fun calmly chasing them down. Long lines and prong collars, together and apart, are my best friends!

Good luck with Teagan

The first time we took our dog to the ocean we put him on a long line with a prong. I can't remember if we used the 30' or 50' line. He had never seen seagulls before, but they had all apparently seen dogs. He took off after them and ignored our recall, hit the end of the line, yelped, and came back to us like nothing had ever happened. This happened about 3 times in two days. He didn't go into avoidance, just came back to us like he was supposed to.

I don't think it will injure your dog any more than a regular buckle collar could. I take my dutchie to the chiropractor regularly because he is so insane he hurts his hip by turning so fast and it has to be adjusted. But he has never had to have his neck adjusted, hard to believe but true.

I use a 50ft line on my dutchie with a prong. All long line running with him is a controlled game of fetch or "find the pterodactyl" game. If he is nearing the end of the line I call him and if he ignores it, he self corrects. The only time he has ignored my call is when he saw another dog or rabbit or something.

In that case a very hard correction was needed and all I had to do was hold on tight. He has flipped himself that way and knocked me off my feet. His temperament is pretty hard though, he hardly yelped at all after being flipped and still looked for the rabbit. Insane dog. If your dog is too soft for that use a buckle collar on a real long line, or don't let her get any speed with the prong. Make sure you always warn the dog when she gets close to the end of the line or call her.