I think Harvey is a great name (kind of says mellow mutt, which at some point when he is older he will be). When my kids were young, the mutt at the time learned to be mellow probably due to the craziness that was going on all around.

As far as how you are using the crate, for wildness, I have been doing that as well and now that I think about it, haven't had to put Maggie in for the "time away" for a while now -- she is just 1 year old. So she did learn to calm down, by doing that. And she still goes in by herself when she needs quiet time.

Do the kids participate in any of Harvey's training? My own philosophy is that everyone in the house participates so the dog is part of the family and clear on his place to obey every family human. I certainly don't want to change what you are doing if you are more of the one person per dog folks as often seems to be in PPD work (or at least that is my impression) . But this is what worked for us with Border Collies (high energy, nippy, one an 18 month old rescue with NO training or manners) Bullmastiffs (power, guardiness and wanting to mouth as pups) and Rhodesian Ridgeback (power, NOT high drive but tending to jump up as a young dog) Obviously with any of our smaller than knee high dogs it was far less of an issue. And some of our dogs(BoxerXBeagle, Poodle and Westie) were trained before the kids came along and others have been trained by the kids now that they are teenagers.

When the kids were small small with the BCs and Bullys I supervised all mealtimes but had the kids participate. The food bowls were filled and stacked. Dogs were told BY THE CHILD to go their crate and sit. I am right (literally) behind the child backing all this up. The dog obeys, the child places the dish and releases the dog.

The dogs training likewise included the children. I would be right there and the kids would be giving the command and rewarding.

It really seemed to help build a good relationship with both dogs and kids. Taught the dogs and children to obey and respect each other. With the bullmastiffs, who were very family oriented it helped since it was only a matter of weeks before the puppies outweighed all three kids(combined actually). At 18 months even my youngest could say "Sit", "Bed" and "Good". And yes, I would exercise the dogs before training sessions. And YES, it was a lot of work, but it was so worth it.

You may still get the overexcitement outside but it will give you a base to work out from. Our kids, within the first year with Bullys and BC s were out in the yard teaching the dogs to play freeze tag and hide and seek.

Well it seems that Harvey's really just doing fine in almost all areas. The kids aren't really involved in his training, simply because they just aren't interested in dogs like I am. That said, I do occasionally have one feed for me, or take him out to potty, and he does fine. He sits at the crate just as he does for me, and he's no problem on the leash.

I guess back to my question about desensitizing.... should I try to work with Harvey around the youngest child when he's very rowdy and try to work toward getting him not to respond, or just chalk it up to a puppy really really wanting to play with a really really loud and quick kid?

My concern with desensitizing is that later, Harvey might not respond if, say, someone came at my child in an aggressive manner. At this point I'm pretty certain Harvey would interfere (though not aggressively, just wanting "in on the fun"), and that would give me opportunity to catch up and put a stop to whatever's going on.

If he's desens---- (tired of trying to spell) to the scream and action, would that take away from his PPD job for my family?

I'm just confused, b/c Harvey is so un-excitable and mostly lazy an sooooo easy to manage, except for the screaming. Perhaps that is triggering his prey drive and I need to use that for PPD training? I'm just not sure I'm personally ready for a *real* PPD.... so much time, energy and liability involved.

Sorry, but I can't help it...train the child, not the dog? I couldn't stand it when my kids screamed (without a good reason, anyway).

I misunderstood your situation and goal, sorry.

My very humble experience.....

I personally wouldn't worry about him being able to differentiate between excited screams and something warranting attention. I know any dogs I have had could certainly tell the difference and we have a very chaotic, loud household. Certainly their reaction varied with their personalitys but they could tell the difference.

I think I would try engaging him at a physical distance, or as you say, with only one child at a time and staged and in another room or area of the house and HV rewards for attention. I am thinking that some of this is a youth issue. I know with our BCs the need to participate with the kids outside was maddening at times and why I told the kids to include them, wear them out first and then train them a bit. Hence the freeze tag and hide and seek. That and puppy calesthenics.....routine obedience exercises tended to make the dogs think that maybe the noise wasn't as thrilling as it sounded. And it kept Flik from nipping fast moving kids.