Re: Help please I'm loosing my mind!
[Re: Elaine Haynes ]
#299263 - 10/13/2010 07:49 AM |
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Very interesting. I'm going with Randy and Elaine on this one. I would take this dog straight to the vet for some testing. because the behavior is so inconsistent and seems to be triggered by almost anything or nothing at all I am leaning towards some type of medical imbalance.
The other significant thing that jumps out at me is that you say he "rolls over on his back and bites". I have never seen a dog in an aggressive state roll over on his back and bite. I do see my jeter do this all the time when he plays with my other dog. My dogs are only allowed to use their mouths for play with each other. Never with human pack members.
So that being said I wonder if this is really aggression as much as possibly medical or psychological. As in some kind of serious anxiety.
I would seek a behaviorist more than a trainer.
Let us know how it works out.
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Re: Help please I'm loosing my mind!
[Re: Alec Garrison ]
#299264 - 10/13/2010 08:07 AM |
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Very interesting. I'm going with Randy and Elaine on this one. I would take this dog straight to the vet for some testing. because the behavior is so inconsistent and seems to be triggered by almost anything or nothing at all I am leaning towards some type of medical imbalance.
I agree something just doesn't seem right when the triggers are so random and could be anything not just another dog/animal, noise, or person. Definately see a vet.
I would seek a behaviorist more than a trainer.
I also agree with this 100%. Once you have received the test results back and if everything is ok then see a behavior specialist. Most trainers usually only know basic behavior problems but nothing as complex as your pooch's issues (if its not medical).
Good luck and keep us informed
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Re: Help please I'm loosing my mind!
[Re: randy allen ]
#299267 - 10/13/2010 09:23 AM |
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Any chance some dietitary change brought on this seemingly overnight behavior?
Have you had any blood work-up done? Ever?
Perhaps some hormone imbalance?
I don't believe it is from dietary change he has been on a raw diet for something like 3 and a half months now and if anything the behavior was worse on kibble. I will definately be calling the vet to look into blood work to start ruling some things out. Thanks everyone for the advice.
Tenzin |
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Re: Help please I'm loosing my mind!
[Re: Brent Petersen ]
#299268 - 10/13/2010 09:32 AM |
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So does the muzzle actually help stop the behavior ? One of the problems when im correcting him for this it seems to just amp him up and he rolls over on his back and bites or wraps the leash up with his paw.
A muzzle wouldn't train the dog to stop biting, but would prevent him from doing so while he is being trained.
This is sounding different than aggressively "jumping up and biting". This description doesn't sound dominant and aggressive, more anxious and trying to escape the correction.
I agree with everyone who suggests taking this guy to a vet for tests, and finding a behaviourist who can decipher what this dog's needs are more accurately.
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Re: Help please I'm loosing my mind!
[Re: Theresa MacDonal ]
#299269 - 10/13/2010 09:44 AM |
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I'm not an expert or a dog trainer, but after reading your post, I wonder if it is true handler aggression, or amped up young dog looking at you as a play item?
I thought it could be something like this as well when he starting running around while we were playing fetch because if I have a tug with me sometimes I can redirect his attention on it and he will calm down.
However it's a different story when were on a walk he wont touch a tug or his wing a ball once we leave the backyard he is just too distracted it's something I've been trying to work on with him as well I just don't have that kind of engagement yet. Actually once we were on a walk and I stopped to try and play tug with him for a few minutes and that actually put him in one of these crazes and he started jumping on me and mouthing my arm.
I feel like he is getting enough exercise he goes with me everywhere we go for about an hour and a half walk every night and try and fit as many short tug sessions in with him I can at work and in the evening.
Tenzin |
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Re: Help please I'm loosing my mind!
[Re: Brent Petersen ]
#299271 - 10/13/2010 09:55 AM |
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This is sounding different than aggressively "jumping up and biting". This description doesn't sound dominant and aggressive, more anxious and trying to escape the correction.
I'm not sure its true agression either thats why its so baffling to me. He jumps on me and starts to bite then I correct him and he will start rolling around on his back biting the leash. I usually lay off then because it seems to just work him into a frenzy I try to continue on our walk and he immediately jumps back up and starts biting me. Usually this will happen 4 or 5 times in one of his episodes and then its over to him like nothing happened friendly as can be.
Tenzin |
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Re: Help please I'm loosing my mind!
[Re: Brent Petersen ]
#299272 - 10/13/2010 10:09 AM |
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Any chance you could get this behavior on video and post it here?
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Re: Help please I'm loosing my mind!
[Re: Brent Petersen ]
#299274 - 10/13/2010 10:18 AM |
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If am I reading this correctly, your dog does the following:
1. Loses the ball (gets frustrated), runs back at you full speed, bites;
2. Zeroes in on a distraction (another dog, etc.) and when you interrupt the concentration ( frustrate the dog) he snaps back at you (or whatever interrupted the very important activity);
3. Does not get what he wants and cannot get the message through, gets frustrated and starts to bite you (provider of all things).
This behavior is very similar to what Haydn does in similar situations. I am not supposed to let him bite me but don't want to overdo the corrections so that I just .. don't let him...
In our situation these are the things that work:
1. "Look what I got!!!" - shove a highest value treat under his nose and start a short OB session;
2. Try redirecting with a toy - not always works;
3. Grab him so that he cannot get me and take him to his crate calmly, toss a treat in, "get in" - "good boy!" - works 100% of the time
This frustrated behavior often happens when Haydn did not get enough training/exercise/play. We do intense mental activities (learning new stuff, tracking), high-energy activities (high drive bitework or OB) and fool-around play.
I might be completely wrong here
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Re: Help please I'm loosing my mind!
[Re: Konnie Hein ]
#299280 - 10/13/2010 10:39 AM |
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Any chance you could get this behavior on video and post it here?
I thought about that last night I'll see if my girlfriend can follow me on walk with my flip maybe I can capture an episode.
Tenzin |
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Re: Help please I'm loosing my mind!
[Re: Elaine Haynes ]
#299285 - 10/13/2010 12:38 PM |
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From the picture you posted this dog looks like a Pit mix. You said you adopted him and Pit Mixes make up 90% of what is in shelters these days.
Jeter (pictured below)is a Pit mix and so is Dakota. They both have their share of issues that need my attention but Jeter is the one that requires most of the work. I got him at 5 months old and his issues were already ingrained in him.
He has come a long way but I still have to manage him. I choose the word manage deliberately. In the past before I knew better I had dogs and whatever their issues were I tolerated them. In today's world with all these shelter dogs and all the irresponsible breeding these dogs are unbalanced to say the least.
My guess is your dog has some issues that are going to take time to work through. I am particularly interested in the way he uses his mouth to play and for attention and also to impose his will. The first thing I would do is make sure most of your corrections come from him being mouthy. He cannot use his mouth for anything except eating or retrieving something you threw for him.
I might even back off on playing tug for a while. As soon as he nips or uses his mouth a strong correction should be used. When I first got Jeter and for a while until I broke him of the habit he would jump all over me as a greeting.
I worked hard to break him of it. Now when I first get home he has a tendency to follow me through the house and nip at my fingers (because they hang low enough for him to get to them)as I go through the house. He is looking for my attention and because he knows jumping wont work he now does this.
I send him right to his crate until he is relaxed and then he gets to say hi to me in a civilized way. I am not using the crate as a punishment but because he loves his crate and goes there when he wants to lay down and relax that is the place I send him when I want him to be calm.
He gets the message that being clam is the best way to get the affection he seeks from me. It takes time but its working.
When he was younger he used his mouth and just like a kid sometimes they don't know their own strength. I don't think this dog is biting with the intention to hurt you or to attack you. If so you would be stitched up all over the place.
I think he is acting out in the only way he knows how and its going to take some work and commitment to get him to change his behavior. You have your work cut out for you.
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