hi all,
the really nice thing is the SV has voted in all working line people----nice huh.Does anyone think that there'll be a big change in the upcoming yr????

Lee wrote: "So don't automatically turn up your nose at a working line dog who is Koer Class 1 and V or SG..."


I certainly don't, that would be stupid. In fact I don't even look at those funny markings next to a dog's name. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I don't think it is a worthwhile endeavor to get an SV judges opinion on the dog's conformation. Nor is it a worthwhile endeavor to breed the working stock for that goal. I give a crap less that there is a double standard. To show up at all is to relent to the fact that you believe their system is a good one and that showing dogs in a conformation ring means anything whatsoever. Which it doesn't. If it did then all the show lines would be just as nice as you say your female is and we all know that is not the case.

As I said, I don’t even look at the KKL or SG/V whatever rating, and frankly anybody that does is someone I wouldn’t buy a dog from because I don’t trust them. I don’t trust that they are looking for the best working dogs to breed. I think they are looking for dogs that have a V and KKL1, who also can get a SchH title and may look nice on the Schutzhund field. That isn’t the best way to breed working dogs IMO.

I owe everyone an apology. List close and hard because this doesn't happen more than two, three times a decade. I'm freakin' sorry guys!!!

I ineffectively and quite apparently did not convey my opinion correctly. Here was my point:

Conformation matters to the point it contributes to the effective working ability of the dog at hand. Ugly is in the eye of the beholder to the point where mechanical structure is interfering wirth the purpose the dog os to serve. I am certainly NOT explaining away, justifying nor do I understand the examples of the high line dogs we have today. My point about Uran was, and I FAILED (that hurt,too) say that Uran, 2x Seiger looks more like a working dog than the dogs we have today. The point being this: a continued polarization of the breed isn't helping it's purpose: to be a working dog. We have not too recently discussed what is being noticed with gen3 and 4 dogs line bred on Mink. Conincidence? I don't know, I'll leave that to the dudes in the lab coats.

I am not suggesting that we all run out and breed to the nearest and most available VA dog, that would be genetic suicide. I like to use the Koer to get a better whole picture of the specific animal or breeding at hand. I'm not saying that a dog should be V or KKL1 to be considered worthy of the name DSH. I do think that once we start looking a KKL2 dogs that made it by the hair on thier teeth, we as consumers and breeders should look a little closer. And here is something I am ABSOLUTELY positive about, one A*%#@!&'s opinion of my dog, breed judge or working judge, does not make my dog worthless or any more worthy.

Time to print this and frame it. I said I failed and I'm sorry. This is really killin' me. And all this under the topic of American Show Lines.
G.

P.S. Anyone know why we are not seeing Van Tiekerhook dogs in PSD pedigrees?

Ok, I replied to this at the beginning with the understanding this was about the American Shepherds. How did it get turned into the conformation German lines? I have a working line shepherd but don't always turn my nose up at the conformation lines. If the right one came across, I'd take it.
And Gordon, my look to the Tiekerhook lines...a lot of the Tiekerhooks stay over in the Netherlands, atleast more stay than coming over hear. And probably, most of those dogs that stay their, work as PSD and that only. Most work a hard and effective life with out breeding.
Brandi <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks all, my bad, I led this party astray. G.

I am closing this thread. We can beat a horse 44 times and if the point has not been made - well maybe its a HE SAID - SHE SAID issue.

Ed