Hello, I hope the members of this forum can help me. I have been looking for a family pet and found a very friendly, seemingly obedient, 4 year old Australian Shepherd at the local shelter. I introduced him to my 7 month old, 4 year old and 7 year old sons and he seemed wonderful with them. But on the day we went to fill out the adoption papers we were looking him over again out in the play yard and another male dog was in the far corner of the play yard. He bolted straight for that dog and attacked him. Luckily, I had just read the article on how to break up a dog fight the day before and we pulled them apart by the back legs. The person who had the Australian Shepherd's back legs did not swing and he did not turn on her to bite her. We were able to keep them apart and get leashes on them and return him to his cage.

Here is my question - is a dog that is dog aggressive but apparently very socialized to people likely to turn on people?

I can assume that he had been attacked by a dog in his past because he has a torn up ear. With people he is incredibly friendly and even careful. When he wanders in the play yard and we call him, he comes running at full speed but checks himself at the last minute and stops at a sit right in front of us.

If I got him I would immediately begin obedience training and then work to break his dog aggression. But I am afraid that he might at some future date decide to test his position in the pack with one of my sons. Is this likely?

If yes, I could not take the risk.

I thank you in advance for your input and responses.

If you have done your testing with people it is unlikely that this dog will be people aggressive. While it can happen - a dog that is animal aggressive is not necessarily people aggressive.

Read the article on my web site about how to prevent dog bites in children.

Thanks Ed for your reply. I have already taught my 4 and 7 year old boys that when they see a dog to ask its owners, "Is that dog nice?" Then if the answer is yes, "Is it o.k. to pet your dog?" Then, I've taught them to approach a dog with hand down low to stroke their neck first.

Aside from immediately beginning obedience training and having him wear a prong collar and lead any time we were out in public (in case we came across a dog) - what advise would members of this board give me if I decided to get this dog?
Are there any tests I could administer at the pound? Anything I should do as I integrate him into the household? He would be the only pet.

First off try to find out everything you can about the dog's previous home from the shelter staff. If the dog was a stray that won't be possible, but if it was an owner turn-in they usually will have info on if the dog has been around children, other pets, and why the dog was surrendered. 90% of the reasons I see are usually because of either a housebreaking issue, or a move. The vast majority of dogs in pounds do not get adopted. My local shelter has a euthanasia rate of about 60% of the animals that come through the doors. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I used to feel that testing the dog in the shelter was a good idea, but I have learned over the years that the dog is usually so stressed that you really don't see its true colors till you have had it in the home for a few weeks. Everything you have said about the dog sounds good, except the dog aggression. You need to understand that there isn't really a "cure" for that, you more or less have to control it for the rest of the dog's life. That will mean not going to the dog park or doing doggie fun walks etc, but it the dog is a great home dog, the trade may be well worth it. The other thing is that the dog may be fine with other dogs if they are female, some dogs just can't be around other males, and some females can't be around other females. You didn't mention if the dog was already altered or not.

I have learned to trust my gut feelings when looking at a dog. The only one that has ever come back to bite me (figuratively and literally) was a dog that I KNEW I should not have taken before I left the owners house with it. I should have listened to my gut feeling. There are risks with any dog, older or puppy, but adopting can be very rewarding.

One thing that is important with brining home that dog is to set up a routine from day one. Get the dog a crate and use it. The dog will have security from being in a routine and the crate will become a haven when the dog is tired of the goings on of the house. My house dog is only officially crated when he eats,(because he is messy) but will often let himself into his crate when he feels like sleeping. Dogs like crates!

I will leave you with that for now, but feel free to ask more questions as you have them.

Not to discourage anyone from adopting dogs from a shelter as there are many success stories to be told, but the one thing that always worries me about shelters is the intake of animals who's owners have not been 100% honest about why they are surrendering the dog. Many owners do not have the guts to put an animal down for biting a kid so what do they do?....they surrender the dog to a shelter and say something like "My son has allergies" or "We just don't have the time" or maybe they will admit that the dog has growled but will not tell the entire truth. I'm not saying that this is the case with this dog. I'm just saying be careful, don't be impulsive. You have gotten good advice from Ed and Deanna...go with it. Just be extra thorough with your research on the dog and ask a lot of questions. If something sounds fishy, go with your gut like Deanna says. Again, you can get a great dog from a shelter or rescue group...just be careful. Good luck. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I can definitly say that dog aggressive dogs can be trustworthy with children. My 7 year old pit doesn't even bat an eye in groups of pushy kids, he's the most people submissive dog I've ever met. Dogs are another story.

Deanna is correct though, it often takes several weeks for a dog to show his true personality in a new home.

Keep an eye on the dog around your kids, and watch for any warning signs.

I have an adopted Great DaneXNewfie who is dog aggressive. She will attack any dog male or female and even small puppies. She weighs about 120lbs and takes some holding back when the red mist comes down.

The only breed she likes are GSD's as she used to live next door to one when she was a puppy! Maybe she has taste!

She was attacked by a doberman when she was very young so now she get's in first! We have tried to get her out of this but we have given up - we now just avoid the situation. Luckily we live in the country so it's not too big a problem.

She is absolutely wonderful with small children but seems to distrust men.

If you get this dog I think you should realise that you probably won't find a cure for this dog aggression. I would echo what Deanna and the others have said - use a crate - and don't forget that there is a "honeymoon" period usually with rescue dogs (about 6 weeks) Watch the dog closely and if you can't supervise the dog and the kids use the crate.

The main thing is be sensible and be safe.

I do hope it works out for you.
Gwen

Thank you everyone for your sage advice.

Buddy was found running loose and no one came to claim him so we will never know for sure what his "issues" are.

He is an ABSOLUTE LOVE with me and we bonded at first sight. But part of what I am looking for is a dog my kids can walk on a leash (it is what they want to do most). If that part of having a dog is denied them then the reason for getting the dog is mostly defeated.

I decided not to get Buddy but made sure that the pound will place him with the local Aussie Rescue Group rather than let him be put down. For the right family he will be an absolutely Great Dog.

I actually came across him accidentally while looking for a collie (a good breed for a family with kids). Good news, I am going today and am 95% sure I will pick up a rescue, 4yo, female smooth collie. She is actually an owner surrender and I'll be getting her directly from the owner's home - she has never been fostered. The owners are moving to an apartment and cannot keep her. She has been around the owners 7 grandchildren and is great with them. She is also supposed to have a very calm disposition - not afraid of thunderstorms or prone to jumping and getting overly excited. I hope she is the one!

Thanks again everyone for your input - it helped me make the final decision.

I know I will be back to this board frequently as issues arise while the new dog integrates into our family.

I think you have made the right decision in not taking on this dog - there isn't much fun in owning a dog aggressive dog.

Not sure about a collie though. JMO

Gwen