Is anyone feeding barf to their dogs and also giving vitamin supplements?
I have been feeding barf for 8 months now and dont feed any vitamin supplements at all.
Dogs in the wild only eat what they can hunt/find.
I eat what ever is in my kitchen/supermarket I dont take any vitamin pills and I am healthy and fit.
Surley if I feed my dogs a variety of raw foods they will also be healthy and fit and will just like me not need any vitamin supplemenets?
If you need to add vitamin supplements to your dogs diet then surley your dog is not getting the correct diet?
I just want the best for my dog and new pup any advice and thoughts would be appreciated.
THANKS
PAUL.

Paul there is a wealth of information on this board that will answer all your questions. You need to go back and READ the archives on the subject. You can find the raw diet information by scrolling down the main index page of this discussion forum.

You cannot possibly compare you nutritional needs to a dogs nutritional needs. Come on....Dogs in the wild also die at an earlier age. Your idea about a dogs diet lacking if they are fed supplements in incorrect also. I'm not going to rewrite all the information you need to know in this post. Most BARFER'S have spent a great deal of time reading about this subject. I suggest you do the same. By the way, my dogs receive several quality supplements. I on the other hand do not but should!

Glenn

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...If you need to add vitamin supplements to your dogs diet then surley your dog is not getting the correct diet?.....PAUL.

You specify *vitamin* supplements, but I'm going to assume you refer to all supplements.

I have read that Dr. Billinghurst supplements every now and then with a couple of the well-known antioxidant vitamins, but that he generally thinks many dog-owners oversupplement.

My own feeling is that if we look at the ingredients of the raw diet we're feeding, we can see if we are short on anything that would be present in an ideal wild diet, and possibly consider a supplement for that (although I would rather reach for the food that's missing).

I do supplement with EFAs -- primarily in the form of flax oil or human-grade distilled fish oil.

We don't generally feed the whole carcass (brain*, intestines, and so on), meaning (IMO) that some EFAs are in short supply, and my own reading and experimenting have convinced me that essential fatty acids (particulary Omega 3s) are a great supplement for me and my dogs. The dogs' skin and coats profit (IMO), and I believe that their whole systems profit from the anti-inflammatory properties of EFAs.

I also believe that dogs have evolved eating produce (fallen fruit, etc.), since they are opportunistic omnivores. This doesn't mean they ground cereal grains and made bread, but I think their systems have developed with some small amounts of well-ripened produce. Not everyone agrees with this, btw. There are definitely some experts who believe that all they need is raw meaty bones.

I also add some kelp every now and then because of its trace minerals, but that too is a personal decision.

*With good reason

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I dont take any vitamin pills and I am healthy and fit.

I'm perfectly healthy and I eat McDonalds, Burger King, Wendys or Taco Bell almost every day (hey what can I say, it's easy to grab when you're on the go! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> - does that mean I wouldn't be healthier if I cut out the junk food? This is such a huge misconception, and when it comes to dogs - they're not wild animals, they've been domesticated for years, my dog won't touch raw chicken because he hates the texture, he won't shred apart a steak, he likes ground beef though - should I let him eat 1/10th of what he should be eating because he's not eating what he should if he were in the wild? The way I see it is if the extra few minutes a day taking the time to give him his vitamins will give me a few extra years of having my dog, it's worth it to me.

My only take on the topic is that the animals we buy for consumption are, themselves, fed a diet optimal for rapid growth and early slaughter - not health or longevity. They have to be pumped full of antibiotics and hormones to keep them from getting sick and to promote growth before they are killed.

Anyone who has ever eaten the same species of meat (including poultry) that you would buy at grocery store BUT has been raised free range knows the taste difference between commercially raised and free range -- --

So I am not convinced a raw diet truly mimics a wild diet in terms of vitamins and minerals.

I don't think supplementing IN MODERATION is going to be harmful (kelp, small doses of vitamins, oils)so would rather err on that side than not at all.

The dog food companies are not going to fund studies on how best to feed BARF and all of what we have on the topic is andecdotal; until a legitimate study is done - when pigs fly -- will we know the complete answers.

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Is anyone feeding barf to their dogs and also giving vitamin supplements?

I do add vitamin supplements with raw diet. I am conditioning the dog for weight pulling so the conbination of vitamins that I worked out between 2 different veterinarians, an experienced weight puller and a couple experts on canine nutrition. The purpose is to reduce physical stress, speed the recovery time after conditioning and help support muscle tone and muscle mass. (It is working nicely <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

The amounts of and the form of the vitamins are irrelevent for posting because it will vary by weight, health and you should consult your veterinarian if you want to start a vitamin regimen as broad as this.

I add to the raw meaty bones:
Probios, kelp, alfalfa, vitamins A and D in the form of fish liver oil, omega acid enriched egg, vitamins B-complex, additional Biotin, C, E, a very small amount of calcium, glucosamine chondritin (maintenance dose), and a broad trace mineral supplement for dogs

It is not necessary to add these supplements. I did not add any supplements until I started preparing this dog for conditioning.

I wanted to show the other end of the spectrum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ì personally don't feel that dogs or humans can get everything they 'need' from food anymore. We just don't grow things in the rich soil that contained the minerals etc of days gone by. We are also ingesting many "unnatural" things with what we and our dogs eat that we did not years ago. (antibiotics, hormones, radiation, and who knows what else!).

Therefore I do supplement my dogs with some extras depending on thier activity level, the stress they encounter, and thier age.

Every dog is different. My dogs work and are likley under more stress than the average family dog. These things also add to thier 'health' in my opinion but it also means I may need to supplement them.

Other things to consider (that we don't do to ourselves). We bombard are dogs with yearly vaccines (many unnecessary) and tax our dogs immune systems CONSTANTLY, dewormers, flea/tick products/pesticides, and who know what else in the name of a 'healthy dog'. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> They have found that vaccine damage can change the DNA in a dog for generations and be passed on from generation to generation.

The above post talks about some other good reasons to add supplements.