My dog hid in the bushes after I used the electric collar the first time, did I completely screw this up?

Question

Hi,

    I talked poor Donna's ear off, and she suggested I contact you for assistance. I am sorry this is so long, but I encountered a totally unexpected problem with the e-collar and am wondering if I can fix this or if I should just return it.

    Background:

   Raja is a male Doberman. He'll be two next month. He's a great, great dog. I'd done all the groundwork with him but I clearly messed up somewhere because we have two big problems: high prey drive and some self-control issues. He gets very excited around other dogs (wants to play, play, play) and he goes into a 'zone' when he sees a rabbit, squirrel, bird, etc. before I do. I can't always get his attention when that happens.

    I use your small prong collar on our walks (when he was still growing, I had to take out too many links from the medium size to make it fit). Maybe I should use a medium or large now that he's full-grown?

    The prong helps on our walks, but I still don't feel I have enough control. He is very strong. I'm not weak, but I'm small. With the prong, he has still almost pulled me off my feet. And my arms hurt!

    Our training facility (agility and formal obedience) doesn't allow prongs. The recommended Gentle Leaders and harnesses are ridiculous. The Gentle Leader just depressed him (and me!) and didn't work anyway. He pulled more with the harness than he did with his flat collar, so I just stayed with the flat collar.  And 'goosing' him to get his attention (suggested) doesn't work when I need both hands on the leash to control him when he goes in his zone. I just need to get him in the door and controlled. He's much better these days, but he's still way too bouncy/pushy/vocal for my taste. And when he sees the cat? There goes my arm. He's out of control barking and lunging. He's fine with other dogs once class starts.

    The e-collar was my last resort. I was worried about hurting him, but your e-collar training is humane (thank you!). And I loved what Ed says on the DVD that it's more humane to nick a few times than keep yanking on the prong.

    I just want (and need) Raja to listen to me no matter what is going on around us.  Just like he does at home.

    Problem:

    I ordered your Dogtra 1900NCP e-collar, Cinch-It Collar (what an easy thing to attach!) and Remote Collar Training DVD. When they arrived, I immediately watched the DVD and started collar-conditioning my dog. Throughout the collar conditioning period, I re-watched portions of the DVD several times (especially the sections on setting the level and walking with a leash).

    Yesterday was the big day. About an hour after I put his collar on, I started testing to see what level we should use. Nicking only (of course), I started out on 0. Moved to 1. Nothing.  Eye blink at 2, but not the reaction needed (my understanding from the DVD?!). Level 3, he looked at the ground. I thought we had it. I pressed Nick one more time, same reaction. Easy!

    Or so I thought. I praised and treated, but he reached out very hesitantly. Odd because he's always ready for food. He acts like he's never been fed in his life. Not this time.

    I ran into the house to get my car keys, anxious to start working on his impulse control around a friend's dog he'd never met.  I was gone for maybe 10 seconds and came back to an empty, fenced in yard. No sign of Raja. I called him, and nothing. He always comes when I call. My heart started pounding because I thought somehow he'd gotten out of the gate. I kept calling, looking everywhere, but he was nowhere to be found.

    Finally (finally!), I found him in the back corner of the yard, hidden under my giant sea green junipers. Flat on the ground, lying on the landscape rocks. I'd had to push the prickly things aside to find him, but I found him.  It was the only place he could possibly be because I could see under all the other trees and shrubs.

    But he wouldn't come out. Wouldn't move. I tried to lure him with treats. Nothing. I was terrified, thinking I'd 'broken' my beautiful dog. Went back in the house to get his favorite: string cheese (which I use for high distractions). NOTHING. I added Plato Farmer's Market Salmon treats (my choices are limited because he's allergic to turkey and chicken). His nose poked out. But the rest of him didn't move. I was flat on the rocks, holding up the branches, treating and luring for ages before I finally got him back on the grass. This all took about half an hour.

    I wanted to take the collar off and quit, but I knew our problems (impulse control, high prey drive) wouldn't go away. So I left the collar on but turned everything off. I tried to act as normal as possible, and we went back to our normal Sunday.

    About an hour or so later I tried again, this time on PAGER only. He looked around and skulked off behind the lilac bush. He stayed for a minute and then headed for the junipers again and stayed there. Pulling back the branches did nothing this time. He was too far back. And he was having nothing to do with the treats.

    It finally took me opening the garage door, starting the car and backing out of the driveway.  I sat in the street watching and finally saw his feet under the back door.  I went and got him, praising and treating, and we went for a ride.  Usually one of his favorite things, but this time he just sat on the floor right behind my seat and stayed there.

    That was it for me the rest of the day.  He wasn't quite himself until much later, but I was done.  I just don't know what to do.  I never expected this reaction at all.  It was only a level 3 and a pager!  I even double checked to make sure the knob hadn't moved.  It was a 3.  As always, I put this equipment on me before I used it on him.  It took me until 15 before I really felt anything.  So why would a 3 cause this?  This is a confident dog!  He runs across all kinds of moving, vibrating agility equipment without hesitation.  He runs on the treadmill on rainy or sub-zero days.  He can also handle pain.  He'd ripped his leg open once and didn't even make a peep.  And now my brave boy is cowering from this?  I'm just sick.

    Did I completely screw this up?  Any help you can give me would be most appreciated.

    THANK YOU for a wonderful site, products and all the help you provide 24/7!

    Jane

Accepted Answer

Upon reading this a couple things jump out at me.

#1. The very first time you use the collar you decide you are going to go to a friend’s house to ‘test’ it before you have even given the dog a chance to understand the collar and become fluent. This is a big mistake in the line of thinking. The dog needs to be fluent with the collar at home with no to low distractions. By fluent, I mean the dog is clear in understanding. Tapping the button 3 times is not enough for the dog to understand anything. You’re getting WAY ahead of yourself.

#2 You left the dog OFF LEASH so he could go into avoidance. This is huge! You’ve set the dog up to be in a horrible state of mind. You also kept trying different things to get the dog “back” to a good attitude. The dog should not have been given an opportunity to rehearse leaving when he’s unsure. Coaxing a dog with different kinds of treats just reinforces that there is something REALLY wrong. You said in your email you were TERRIFIED you’d ruined your dog. Confident pack leaders don’t display this kind of thinking. The toughest dogs in the world many times aren’t sure about the remote collar at first. It’ doesn’t hurt them and I highly doubt that at level 3 on a Dogtra he even felt anything. I have an EXTREMELY sensitive dog and he doesn’t show anything until 11-13 with no distractions.  This same dog may require 80 in the woods with wildlife present. I would advise you start over, and do not let the dog off leash at all right now.

From your email I sense a bit of anxiety on your part about all this, and I will bet your dog really picked up on this as well. Your attitude may have been a bigger factor than the collar. Dobermans are extremely sensitive dogs, I owned them for 35 years up until a few years ago… if you have the least bit of mental hesitation or anxiety about something they will mirror this.

Cindy