Thanks for the reference guys. Al, awesome videos. We'll be looking for a pup late summer/early fall. Next month we're moving to a new house. So we want to be settled in before we get a dog.

Any opinions on this breeder?

http://baysden.schutzhunddog.com/

Dogs look nice. They x-ray the dogs hips and they work their dogs too.
Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Rob

 Quote: robert wegiel

I am not looking for a dog for over the top drives.

Service and sport dogs are specifically bred for their drives.

Edited by Duane Hull (02/17/2012 09:31 PM)
Edit reason: typo

 Quote: robert wegiel

Any opinions on this breeder?

http://baysden.schutzhunddog.com/

Dogs look nice. They x-ray the dogs hips and they work their dogs too.
Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Rob

Doubtful that is what your looking for imo. Read the comments on the site, look at the pedigrees of the dogs, look at their drives, training, titles, and most importantly *what traits they breed for*. Your looking at working line drivey GSD's there. Bite sports, SAR, police dogs, NARC dogs etc... They would probably make great pets too with the proper training, exercise, and stimulation on a daily basis .

Are you willing to make a gigantic commitment to a drivey pup for the rest of it's life?

This is coming first hand from a new drivey pup owner, I just got myself up to my nose with a drivey dutch shepherd pup. He REQUIRES constant tending to, daily (or hourly!) exercise, and mental stimulation. Not just for an hour or so, but for most of the day! At first I thought he was going to explode from the amount of energy stored in his little body, then I thought about hooking him up to a generator to run my house. Finally I figured out that he won't explode, but he will get very destructive to anything that goes in his mouth (and everything goes in his mouth!). His new thing is jumping furniture.

Don't be surprised, should you go with a working line GSD, if it's more then what you bargained for. Just be aware of what your getting yourself into.

Good luck.

My pup has a pedigree with lots of dogs (German) with SchH 1, 2 & 3 titles in it, but he really isn't what I would consider a true "Working" dog. He isn't a couch potato by any means, and has good prey/tug drive. I only need to take him out for about 30 min twice a day to keep him in check. If I don't commit to that hour each day he gets like a coiled up spring!

In hind sight, I am happy that I didn't go with a true working dog, as I don't have the time to make such a commitment (I have my own business, a wife and 2 kids - 8 & 12).

Of course, my next one will probably be a Dutchie : )

I wouldn't dismiss the working lines out of hand though.

The breeder you mentioned is probably a good place to start. The club they are in is also well-regarded. If that breeder doesn't have what fits your family, they will know someone else who does.

I've found that to find the good dogs, you need to get plugged into the network. There are a lot of people breeding GSD's. Not too many are breeding the good ones.

In every litter, there is a range of drives. Ask the breeder for the laid-back puppy. You will get the confidence, health and temperament benefits of a working line dog without need for constant activity. German Shepherds do tend to have that 'off' switch that other working breeds lack.

Working lines retain the qualities for which the German Shepherd is renowned.

I see a much greater variability of temperament in the show lines. In pursuit of that oversized, shaggy black and red look, many show line breeders have overlooked the need to retain working qualities.

When Leerburg's was still breeding, many of those dogs went to family homes. And, Ed's dogs were without a doubt,'Working Lines'. But, browse through the customer testimonials for the number of comments about 'this is the greatest dog I've ever had'.

http://leerburg.com/pupcust.htm
http://leerburg.com/pupcust2.htm
http://leerburg.com/pupcust3.htm
http://leerburg.com/pupcust4.htm

You may also let them know that you would be willing to take a retired breeding female. The older females are a bit easier to live with in a home and are often trained to a certain level.

Charlie
Ursula vom Leerburg (Dallas)
Ulrich vom Leerburg (Chance)
Zerlinda vom Leerburg (Nikki)
+ a couple of Nikki's heathens in training.

If they're convenient to you, I would check out their dogs.If their club is convenient, you should check that out too. Echoing Charlie, I think when you buy a dog a lot of what you are paying for is your trust in the breeder. Getting to know people first goes a long way. I think something thats going to be important for you to keep in mind is what your wife is willing to do.

High drive doesnt automatically mean hard to live with, but with little kids prey drive in any dog, show or working line can lead to problems so just generally speaking, is mom able to or willing to deal with it. There can be other issues with any pup, but like I said, speaking generally, the prey drive can be the first problem that leads to worse things.

So all that aside, there's nothing showline in my dogs pedigree. His sire is a 2 time USCA Sch3 national champion, WUSV member, and the mother is a SCH3 dog from Tiekerhook. He has all the drive in the world, and he's about as good a family dog as you could ask for.

thanks for the additional information, everyone. I think I will give that breeder a call and see what they have to say. It's not too far a drive so maybe we'll go for a visit if the breeder is ok with it.
I was goning to say that temperaments vary within litters and most dogs end up as companion dogs and not as police or schutzhund dogs - but some of you already beat me to it

Steve,
What kind of problems are you talking about? Do you mean the dogs tryng to herd the kids or knocking them over because they have a lot of energy? Or is there something else? Thanks.

Rob

Chasing and nipping that escalates into a full blown bite.

 Quote: robert wegiel

I was goning to say that temperaments vary within litters and most dogs end up as companion dogs and not as police or schutzhund dogs - but some of you already beat me to it

Rob

This is so very true. For the most part however, when you have drivey parents, you have drivey pups. Some not as much as others, but still drivey, and they do end up as companions most of the time. looks at all the homeless GSD's *sigh*