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on Raising a Working Puppy

I try and answer every question I receive on dog training. I may often come across as a little on the blunt side, (some may call it brash). That is because I consider myself an advocate for dogs and not dog handlers. I am an advocate for common sense dog training and not the latest fad that appears on the horizon. Good dog training is not rocket science. It's common sense.
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Dear Mr. Frawley,
I am a long time member of your discussion board and have purchased items from your website. My question for you is about my 14 week old female rottweiler pup. I would like to know what you think of her nerves at this stage in her life. I have a fully protection trained male adult rott that we train with at a PSA club here in town that has such strong nerve I couldn't mess him up if I tried. We plan to protection train this pup as well.
The pup comes from strong working lines with lots of SCH III's and even a few IPO's scattered through her pedigree. I picked her up last week and the breeder didn't do a lot of socializing with her because she said she is afraid of parvo at such a young age. Ok fine, we bring her home and have taken her everywhere with us, the hardware store, the department store, the DMV to watch people come in and out, and basically everywhere with us. She is not scared of any noise EXCEPT when I started the lawn mower outside she ran and hid in the garage but came back out a few minutes later. When people greet her for the first time she walks up slowly and her tail is down and after a few seconds her tail is going like crazy and she is happy to be there but she isn't crazy about new people right at first. I have taken her to the protection club twice now to watch the agitation and she just lights up when she hears and sees the whip. She runs out to the end of the leash with her tail wagging wanting to inspect.
Everything sounds ok so far right? Well, here is what is worrying me.
When she sees someone strange she barks at them. Like the neighbor
across the street, when they are getting in the car, the pup is barking
at them and runs out to the edge of the grass with her tail straight
up and erect. (she does have her tail by the way). Her hackles are not
being raised so that is a good thing but it worries me at 14 weeks she
is barking at people. What is your opinion on this and if it is a problem
what can I do to solve it???
By the way, she is crate trained and spends her unsupervised time in the kennel. She has tons of prey drive and we are sacking her with a burlap piece attached to an old leather leash. Her grip is nice and deep and she is very quiet while on the sack, she just gives a nice backward tugging motion . I haven't done any obedience with her at all except showing her how to sit by putting her food bowl over her head until she sits, I tell her, "good sit" and then let her have her food. So what do you think? Do I have a nerve bag here or is this typical puppy behavior???
Thank you very much,
Joe
Answer:
Joe,
The female is obviously going to be VERY SHARP as an adult. If your goal is personal protection then that’s what you will get.
But with this said you are going to need to change some things you seem to be doing.
1- I would NEVER take this pup to your club until it is over 12 months of age. It’s a bad idea. Dogs like this do not need it. It will make her crazy.
2- I don’t use the whip in training the way you see a lot of people do. The whip becomes a prey item and is the most over used and poorly used piece of equipment there is. I save the use of the whip for when I really need it - and that is to sting a dog when I feel he may need waking up.
3- You should be focusing everything you can on PREY work with this pup. It needs the kind of work I show in my Building Drive, Focus and Grip Video. This is calm work with the handler - all the foundation is done at home in your yard. When it’s a year old then it goes to club. But this dog needs to learn to be calm with you.
4- I assume you allow it to have little to no time with your male. Not until it's 4 to 5 months old. It must focus on you.
5- I NEVER allow people to touch my dog. Not ever! Not for any reason! With this said, if you have a sharp dog, which you have, I will break the "No Touching" rule and have people give her pieces of food. This continues until she does not have problems with strangers. From that point on no one touches or pets her.
6- I will be releasing a video on Raising a Working Puppy - you may want to get it.
Good luck
Hello, I recently purchased some of your DVD's; Building Drive and Focus, Bite Training for Puppies, and The First Steps of Bite Training. I plan to follow up with the first steps of defense and training personal protection dogs. I find them very informative and very well done. I have a couple of questions that I would like your insight on. The first is I have a GSD that is 20 weeks old. He is very smart, obeys commands sit, stay, retrieve, leads well sits in the kennel while I go out first and sits until released sits and waits to be released to eat his food seems to recognize me as pack leader and has a lot of prey drive. But he is very mouthy. He takes every opportunity to bite me on the hands & arms and as I walk he bites my legs and tugs at my pants. When I grab him by the scruff of the cheeks stare into his eyes warn him and even growl at him sometimes he will start to circle me with his ears pinned back barking and snapping at me. Also a couple of times when I try to get him to release the bite tug he has growled at me. Then I put him down, place my fingers into his neck and growl at him. When I let him up he is ok. The other thing is when he counters on the bite tug and I release it he walks off and stands or lays down and starts hunching as if he is breeding a female. My next DVD will be dealing with dominant & aggressive dogs. E would appreciate any advice you can give me.
Thanks,
Greg
Answer:
Your dog is not being dominant or aggressive, he is merely trying to get you to play with him. At 20 weeks old your dog is a puppy, and the humping behavior you see is common in dogs with a lot of prey drive when they are allowed to win the prey object. I would not be snatching this pup and staring in his eyes or growling at him when he was biting at my pants, I would be working him with food and teaching him acceptable things to do to get your attention. You will damage your relationship with the puppy if you continue doing what you are doing now.
I would recommend that you get the DVD titled “HOW TO RAISE A WORKING PUPPY.” It’s only $30.00 and is 75 minutes long.
If you go to the link you will be able to read the description of the chapters in the DVD. We have bred over 350 litters of working puppies in the past 30 years and Cindy (my partner) has been breeding and competing in dog sports at a national level for 20 years.
There are differences in the way you raise a puppy as strictly a pet, instead of a working dog. This DVD helps you set the foundation to train your puppy for a career, whether it be competitive obedience, protection, agility, Schutzhund or Search & Rescue.
Hello,
I have watched the video I purchased, Basic Obedience Training, over and over. The introduction on how the dog thinks was very informative for me. Even though we have had many dogs, I have tended to train them the same as I would my horses. Mistake.
I own an 18 month old male Belgian Malinois. I can see why the breeder was so careful on "placing" him with us. They are wonderful smart dogs that could quickly rule the roost if the owner wasn't consistent. He is very consistent with his obedience work, does tracking and find it games.
The question is, we would like him to "appear" to be protective. We travel a lot and he goes with us. I don't want a true "protection" dog that I would always have to be careful of in public. I would like him to be alert to people that come to the door and make people wonder a little. I'm not sure how to explain what I'm looking for. I do know that the attitude or confidence that a dog projects has a real affect on strangers. That doesn't mean, they growl, snarl, or their hair stands up. We had a Rottie female that was very well behaved around people, but they never took their eyes off her. She just projected herself differently.
This dog failed as a K9 prospect because of his laid back attitude. I think he was the bottom of the pack order.
I hope I explained myself.
Thanks,
Cary
Answer:
I am not sure how long you have had this dog, but at 18 months old he may just not be mature enough to show the qualities you are looking for. Many of our Malinois and GSD males are a bit slow to develop their defensive drive.
It’s also possible that your dog may just not have the characteristics you are describing. All dogs are different, and some dogs are just very social and self assured. They don’t perceive normal everyday things as anything threatening or unusual.
I own 6 Malinois and breed them, and all of my dogs are very watchful and bark like crazy when anyone comes to the door or gets too near our vehicles. It can be a real aggravation sometimes. J
With all the anti dog legislation and breed banning going on, it’s not always a good idea to encourage more watchful and protective behavior.
Hi Ed- I have many of your DVD's. I am a member of your forum. I have a problem with this pup. I need some expert advice. I've owned working import bloodline Rotts and GSD my whole life. I am 60 years old and consider myself experienced with handling these type dogs. I used to be a Koehler type trainer but over the years have changed my methods to more middle of the road. I have a super hard male Dutch Shepherd pup. I've had this pup for two months. I am the center of this dogs life. I spoke to my breeder which is Heartland in Oklahoma. They are connected with Risen Star Kennel in Holland. The sire of my pup is Czech and super hard also. This 4 month old pup is growling at me when I correct him. Yesterday he started showing teeth with a level 3 or 4 correction, so the problem is progressing. I am only correcting for two things. Trying to eat stuff off the ground and biting my 6 year old son too hard. The pup is never off leash or long line. I have a pup prong and Dogtra remote. My breeder-trainer suggest I put the remote collar on him. I don't want to kill any drive in him. Willie Pope a long term Schutzhund judge and head of our local club has temperament tested the pup and says he has what it takes to compete, so far. This is the toughest dog I've ever owned. My breeder who also breeds Mals says there is a big learning curve with these 2 breeds. I'm finding that out. Can you give me any advice. Lee
Answer:
Hi Lee,
I see that you have both the ecollar dvd and the Dominant dog dvd. I would probably try a couple of things before I went to the ecollar. First I would not allow your pup near your son at all right now (at least not in close enough contact to bite him) , this will set you up for more success and take away the trigger for one of your disagreements. I don’t allow my working pups access to kids anyway, because I guarantee you a kid is much more fun to play with for a pup than me! It’s just one more way to control the environment and set it up in your favor. I would probably use a dominant dog collar and hold this pup up calmly, when he shows aggression to you or picks up something he is not supposed to have. Using the prong on some dogs will cause a reaction of retaliation, and I am not a big fan of correcting puppies with a prong.
With my pups, I teach the word YUCK and reinforce to them that whatever they have needs to be spit out right away. You can make this a bit easier by teaching your pup you will trade what he has for a treat. I choose my battles these days. It’s nice to have a dog that willingly gives things up with just a verbal and I don’t see anything wrong with trading them in this situation.
If using the dominant dog collar as outlined in the dominant dog dvd doesn’t seem to get your point across, then I would use the ecollar. I raise Mals and the young male I am working with now had the collar introduced at about 4 months. I don’t believe you will kill his drive if you use the collar correctly.
I live in Germany and have a 7 month Italian Cane Corso,
I had to be very careful when selecting the breeder as I found out that this breed had a couple of standard controversies, causing many breeders ( for expo and other dumb reasons) to breed dogs without taking in consideration the character and temperament of the animal. This breed ( coming from the right lines ) is excellent for guard, protection, and also in SCH. Being a mastiff it matures slowly. My dog has been responding very well to training, I introduced him to Drive and Focus and he loves it, I noticed an immediate improvement. I also started tying him up and play with the tug ( first step of bite training ) and he's being doing very well. As for defense drive the only time I noticed it is when other dogs approach the car and he is in it, he sound off with deep barks and some hair stand on the back of the neck ( this might have been defense, as you described it in your video). My question is about the temper of the dog: when suddenly approached by a dog in a distance his hair stood up and he assumed an alert posture, he is not dog aggressive, so when he realized it's another dog he slowly went towards it. This other dog ( female older ) started showing teeth and acting defensive, my dog tucked the tail a bit and backed off, tried one more time but same happened. Normally I'd have him on the leash when other dogs go by, but I didn't see this one coming. However when he was 5 months he did get a little bit one time, when this idiot had two of his dogs off the leash. How would you describe what happened above? I know he's very young and maybe impossible to tell now, but I wouldn't want to let any early signs go unnoticed. I'm considering training him for guard and protection, and he was not cheap. Is it avoidance and will he always be submissive to other dogs? Could this be early signs of weak temper? Or was it normal puppy behavior?
Thank you for your help.
Regards,
Luigi
What you are describing is normal puppy behavior, and it should not have anything to do with his ability as an adult to do the work you are training him for.
Just do the best you can in avoiding any situations in which he is made to feel fearful or worried about other dogs, and be ready to protect him from other dogs as well. He will look at you as a leader if you are always looking out for him.
If we are out for a walk and are approached by another person walking their dog we NEVER allow the other dog to come up and smell or greet our puppy. I cannot stress this enough.
We don't know how territorial or dog aggressive this other dog is. It only takes a blink of an eye for another dog to strike our puppy. Once a puppy has been attacked, it will be dog aggressive for the rest of its life. Dogs don't forget traumatic events like this.
As the pack leader our puppy EXPECTS us to protect it from non pack members. If we are out for a walk and a stray dog tries to approach our puppy we put ourselves between the pup and the off leash dog. We drive the stray away. If we walk in an area that we know there are stray dogs we will carry pepper gas or a stout walking stick and we don't hesitate to use them if the stray does not heed our verbal warnings.
We decided on having my boy get a Rally, CGC, and/or CD titles. I am ordering the Basic OB/Pack structure combo. Will these 2 be good enough for the goal I have for my rottie?
Also, I got the crate and its set up in the living room right by the back door. I'm being told to have the pup wander around and freely explore the crate on his own. What I gather from your Puppy DVD is to have him enter and close the door and let him learn that he has to be quiet before exiting. Am I correct? Should I be setting up the crate outside since he's an outside dog? I'm having a hard time finding info on "part time crate training." Kenneling him during the day and crating by night... Here's a brief run down on what I plan to do:
4:30am - let him out to potty, exercise on a lead
4:45am - feeding time in the kennel
5:00am - bring him out of the kennel to potty in the dirt yard
5:05am - whether he goes potty or not, put him into the kennel with a frozen Kong stuffed with canned food
5:15am - I leave for work and return home about 4:00pm.
4:00pm - let him out of kennel while I clean yard, poop, and shoot down the kennel
4:15pm - I feed him a half portion of his usual feeding in the kennel
4:30pm - bring him to dirt to potty
4:35pm - if he didn't potty by now I kennel him
5:15pm - bring him out for exercise and play and walk
6:00pm - crate him in living room
7:00pm - his last feeding ??in crate or in kennel?? Not sure yet
7:15pm - potty break in the dirt
7:20pm - crate him with periodically letting him out depending on if he's quiet. I'm in bed by 8:00pm.
Is there anything I can add or remove from this list? Sorry so long but I want to give my pup the best training I can with the time schedule I have.
Thanks!!
Collin
Answer:
I would recommend that you get the DVD titled “HOW TO RAISE A WORKING PUPPY”
If you go to the link you will be able to read the description of the chapters in the DVD.
There are differences in the way you raise a puppy as strictly a pet, instead of a working dog. This DVD helps you set the foundation to train your puppy for a career, whether it be competitive obedience, protection, agility, Schutzhund or Search & Rescue.
As for the crating and kenneling, I would use the kennel run during the day while you are at work so he is not left in the crate without a break for so long. There is more information on the crate on the Pack Structure DVD also.
I use a crate periodically through the day with my pups, but many times leave them in a kennel run or yard during the day and only crate them at night.
You may want to think about the Building Drive and Focus DVD too, if you plan on doing any kind of obedience competitions. It's great for teaching focus and self control, and really fun for you and your dog too.
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Hi, my name is Jose and am very active in all the training products and information on the forum.
I have a problem that I cannot seem to get the answer for. I have a four month GS and have been introducing the sit. My problem is that my puppy seems to sit away from me. I try not to reach out to feed him and have tried putting his rear up against a wall as well, but he begins to role his hip when up against the wall. I have also tried a short leash in an upward position to try to get him to sit closer. I have also tried to position him with food by raising it above his head.
The problem is that he begins to move back just before sitting. I do not want to correct at such a young age by pulling the leash closer. I have trained other dogs and have never seen this before.
The pup is great socially, he loves to come into my arms for hugs so he is not afraid to come close, only when sitting.
I have no idea what to do, I have been reading a lot about the sit and have tried a variety of methods. I own some of the training videos and books. My main concern is that I do not want to leave a bad imprint in his sitting technique. His sitting training is very new to him, 6 day's. I want to fix this problem before it gets's worse.
Any advice will be appreciated.
Thank so much for you time Jose.
Answer:
There are 2 ways that dogs naturally sit. Some rock back into it (like your puppy) and some tuck their hindquarters under. It seems like your puppy thinks ‘sit’ means to rock back. He’s obviously been rewarded for sitting in this manner so the only solution I can see is to retrain the actual act of sitting and using a new word. You will have to ignore and not reward the style of sitting you do not like and get ready to mark and reward the correct behavior.
I would use Training With Markers. We use markers to introduce our dogs to the LEARNING PHASE of training.
Try using a really tasty treat, something he Never gets and goes wild for. I would use it as a lure and get him to tuck his hindquarters under. You might also try putting him on a box or upside down laundry basket so he is less likely to move backwards.
I would probably use a clicker for this to mark the EXACT instant he moves into the position. http://leerburg.com/979.htm Just be patient and be ready to catch him being right, I wouldn’t even use a leash for this right now, just use the food to help him.
Interesting that the AKC has developed a working dog title. Didn’t they previously have a policy that they would not permit any dog sport that “allowed a dog to bite a human being”? I’m paraphrasing of course.
I’m all for working dog titles and as soon as my breeder in Canada can produce a good working Black Russian Terrier male, I will be starting my dog down the Schutzhund trail. I might even take a look at AKC working title. Just finished your video on pups 8 weeks to 8 months and now looking at the Raising a working puppy video. Trying to get some knowledge under my belt.
Looking forward to investing years into developing a good working dog. When should I start bite work with the pup? I remember in one of your videos you mentioned a period while they are losing their teeth that bite work should stop.
Eric
Answer:
You can start bitework yourself with a pup at 8 weeks old. we do recommend you take a break from bitework training during teething, which is typically from 4 to 6 months of age.
Here are some DVD's I would recommend to you.
Bite Training for Puppies
The First Steps of Bite Training
Building Drive & Focus with Bernard Flinks
Preparing Your Dog for the Helper with Bernhard Flinks
Best of luck with your new pup!
How can I divide obedience training in a puppy of 8 weeks and prey drive development using your DVD bite training puppies. What I am really asking is how can I do both things at the same time? Can you give me certain times in a day I can do obedience training and prey drive development?
Answer:
You can do short sessions of prey drive building and short obedience sessions throughout the day, there is no set schedule for these things. The key is to always quit while the puppy wants more. Don’t wait until the pup loses drive or interest. This will change from day to day and as the pup becomes more mature.
This probably means 2-3 minutes at the most.
I am raising a Malinois puppy right now and I do 3 or 4 sessions of obedience during the day, right before meals because that’s when he’s most interested in working for food. I use his meals as the reward, feeding tiny pieces during training.
The prey work I do less of right now, because he has plenty of drive and doesn’t really need this. If he was less driven then I would focus more time on it, but he loves to bite more than he loves food so I do more with food right now.
Hello,
I recently found your site and it is a wealth of great information.
We are the proud owners of an eight-week old Bull-Boxer and I have been scouring the net for information on the best way to train her. I am certainly not a dog trainer, outside of training my dogs to hunt birds. It does not take a rocket scientist to train a Lab to pheasant hunt. In fact, I gave him most of the credit for training me how to pheasant hunt.
My wife wanted a dog that could offer more protection than our current dogs seem suited for. That is how and why we settled on the Bull-Boxer. Now, I am faced with the challenge to turning the puppy into an obedient and protective member of the family. I purchased a "clicker training" course and plan to use that for the basic sit/stay/come stuff and I am leering a great deal about the complexities of protection training. I understand that I cannot begin any kind of formal training until the dog has matured, but I was struck with an idea after reading your site. I guess it is really never too early to start training as long as the training fits the mentality of the puppy.
We started bite training this week by constructing a simple "play station." The puppy has a stuffed duck toy that she likes to attack. I took a rubber stretch band from one of my wife's unused exercise kits and tied it to one of the overhead pipes in our basement. I then attached a short piece of cord to the big rubber band and then to the duck. The puppy LOVES it! She attacks that thing with vigor and no matter how hard she pulls it always pulls back. When it splits out of her grip she leaps on it like there is no tomorrow. The whole deal is very simple and it kind of works like a combo spring pole/whip. It really seems to activate her prey drive and puts her into puppy-attack mode.
We have also been working on the "release" command and then letting her get right back into "get it."
My question is: Do you think this will be of any benefit later when we begin formal training? Is there anything wrong with letting the puppy "play" in this manner?
Thanks again for a great site.
Jason
Mobridge, SD
Answer:
I don’t know that it will help in future training, but it may help build her desire to grip and tug (which is good for a protection dog) But with that said, I personally want my dogs to interact with ME, not just with a toy whenever they feel like it.
If your end goal is training her for protection, I would recommend a couple of videos
Your puppy 8 weeks to 8 months
Pack Structure for the Family Pet
Hello, I have a 13 month old female GSD and I belong to a local Schutzhund club, recently they started obedience class with the younger dogs. I have your video on Basic Obedience and Building Drive and Focus and many more, my problem is she is distracted in the obedience class by other dogs, at home and alone her drive and focus is great. In your video Basic Obedience you say you don't care for these classes because they are crank and pull, should I discontinue these classes and work more on her drive and focus and any suggestions how she can overcome this problem.
Thank You.
Answer:
I think you are rushing the distractions too much. If she is great at home, then move to an area outside of your normal training area and work there, then move to different areas with low level distraction. A class full of dogs is a very high level distraction and many young dogs would not be able to focus in that environment at first. Once she can give you excellent focus with mid level distractions, maybe train in an area where there is one other dog at a distance and gradually move closer.
Make sure your dog is really wanting to engage with you with no distraction all the time before you add more.
I want my young dogs to play with me ANYWHERE, ANYTIME and with ANY THING (ball, tug, towel, plastic bottle, pine cone, etc...)
When my dog can do this I am ready to add more difficulty.
Hi Cindy,
Sorry to bug you, I need a little advice. I was doing some imprint work with my 4 month presa canario this morning using a clatter stick and leather rag, and as I was doing exagerated movements with the clatter stick my pup accidentaly leaned into the clatter stick, and I hit her eye and muzzle, she didn't wimper or get hurt but her prey drive was gone immediately and she became shy of the leather rag, I'm not sure how detrimental this could be, what would you recommend I do with her, so that I havent lost any of my work with her (such as stopping training, or to continue) I study yours and Ed's videos daily but I couldn't find anything in the bite training DVD that covered this.
Your help and advice is greatly appreiceated
Thank you,
Brent
Answer:
HI Brent
I would recommend backing up your training and go back to drive work WITHOUT the clatter stick for now. Once her drive level is back up to where it was before, then see if you can have someone else make a bit of noise from a distance away with the stick. Don’t get too close and if she doesn’t seem to be bothered by it the next time move it closer, etc….. I wouldn’t use it around her body or head until you are absolutely sure she is neutral to it. We do not want the dogs to be worried about the stick OR the prey item. If necessary, use a different prey item (soft towel or ball on a rope) Be aware that your puppy should begin teething at any time now, so you don’t want to be doing a lot of tugging at this time especially if this is a sensitive dog.
I hope this helps.
Love your website and products. I recently bought and watched your "Puppy 8 Weeks to 8 Months" DVD and am awaiting arrival of "How to Raise a Working Puppy."
I have a 12 week old Presa Canario (bitch). She has been with me for 1 week. She is rather bright and has excellent prey and food drives.
In the week she's been here, I have taught her to sit, and sit and wait at the door before following me out/in. She is learning "out" but still needs more work.
My question concerns the "come" command. She has learned it quite well.
She comes when called about 85-90% of the time. It seems she doesn't come when she is tired. In your "8 weeks" DVD you warn against using corrections on young pups, except for the "out" and "come." How should I correct my puppy on those few occasions when she won't come? She is quite resilient but I don't want to harm her confidence (as you tell in your DVD). I am going to train her in Schutzhund and Personal Protection. Whenever she is in the house or outside, I have her on a flat collar and a 6' leash. I have been giving her a light "pop" and she usually responds by coming. On rare occasion, she will just flop down. I have been picking her up, placing her on all fours and then doing the "pop"--this gets her to come.
Your help on this matter will be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Eric
Answer:
If you plan on training your puppy in Schutzhund then I would not be using any corrections for recalls right now. I would actually not ever call my puppy unless I knew the puppy was going to come and I would use food and play to encourage the puppy to come. If your puppy is flopping to the ground she is either overly tired, bored on doesn’t have enough drive. I would NOT use any command that I had to resort to corrections with on a 12 week old dog.
Work on building the drive to be with you, with food and toys and don’t worry so much about commands. Make yourself more interesting so she ALWAYS wants to come to you and if she seems a bit flat or tired then put her in her crate.
Read the article titled Training With Markers http://leerburg.com/markers.htm There are three phases of training, the learning phase, the distraction phase and the correction phase. We use markers to introduce our dogs to the LEARNING PHASE of training.
Cindy
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