Dog Packs

Leerburg Questions & Answers
DOG PACKS
People Who Own 3 or more Dogs

dog pack

Establishing Pack Structure with the Family Pet

PROBLEMS WITH DOG PACKS DOG FIGHTS AND DOMINACE:

I am a owner of a 2 yr old boxer-lab mix, who has just recently developed aggression towards other dogs. As a puppy, I took him to the dog park (almost every day) until he was attacked by a female pit. (He had to have stitches and a drain put into a puncture wound.- probably one of the worst days of my life!) He never had any aggression problems at the dog park up until about 18 months when he started being aggressive towards puppies. (I read in your articles that this is the age of maturity when aggression may develop.) I stopped taking him there, and instead took him on a daily walk. Recently, he has become very aggressive on his walks... when he sees other dogs he will growl and lunge at them. It seems that this aggression is only when he is on a leash. Also, if other dogs run up to him (strays or owners w/their dogs off of the leash) he is fine, lets them sniff him, he sniffs them and there's no problem. He has never shown any aggression towards me- not when I take away toys, or put my hand in his food... has never growled at me or anything. There have been a few times when he has growled at a person on our walks, usually someone wearing a baseball cap and sunglasses (I know that this behavior is still unacceptable, but he does not show aggression usually to people.) He has never shown aggression to visitors in our home.

As a sidenote, it might be beneficial for you to know that my roommate's dogs (2 females) do not get along... we've had to separate them completely in fear that they might kill eachother. They were like this before I moved in, but when my dog and I moved in, the problem exacerbated. (My dog wasn't a part of the fights at first.) We had a behaviorist come in, but they were unsuccessful and we now we keep them in separate rooms and let them out at separate times. My dog was still young when we moved in (I think that he was about 1 year) and initially did not join in the fights. However, as he got older he did... always going after the underdog. He was never hurt, and only joined in 2 or 3 times. (2 or 3 times too many.)

My question is... how can I stop this aggression? I recently was told to do the "alpha roll" which I have done a few times (it was before I read about your take on them) My dog is very submissive to me and knows many commands- he almost always responds to them. When I did the alpha roll, he didn't show any aggression towards me. Can the roll work for some dogs, or could it make him aggressive towards me. I'm just really confused, there's so much information out there, and it's hard to know what is correct! I thought about taking him to obedience classes, but he's already very obedient (minus the aggression towards other dogs.) Could it be that he's protective/defending me? He is not like this with anyone else who takes him for walks... my roommate has been able to take him to the dog park without any problems - no signs of aggression at all! (Although I have stopped her from taking him just recently.) If you could please give me your take on this, that would be great... I've read some of your articles but am not really sure what the answer is for my dog. A muzzle perhaps? I just don't want this problem to continue anymore, I fear that it will just get worse.

Also, he has been around my parents dogs (2 shih tzus, a springer spaniel and a chow)- he grew up with them, lived with them for almost 5 months. There was some growling between him and the chow a few times (unfortunately our chow was very old and had to be put down.) He gets along fine with the 3 other males... I don't understand his aggression on our walks. Please help!

Concerned owner, Mindy Chadwell

Ed's Answer of Aggressive Dog Problem

Mindy,

There are a lot of things going on here.

1- The dog lives in a dog pack (3 dogs) and he has reached maturity. Hence dominance issues

2- Dog parks are stupid dangerous places. But then you found this out and unfortunately will have these problems for life.

3- Obedience training in this kind of a scenario is only about 15% of the solution. It is a necessary part but not the only answer

4- You have found out that most behaviorists are out of their league on problems like this.

5- An Alpha roll is never the solution. It is too dangerous and in many cases just not the right approach.

6- You don’t understand pack and rank behavior – and you need to become an expert on it if you are to safely live with this dog.

7- A muzzle does not solve the problem (even though I am happy to sell them and in many cases they are needed for handler aggression and for testing your pack training )

The solution for your dog is handler education, then dog training. If this were my dog I would run him through the work in my DVD titled Dealing with Dominant and Aggressive Dogs I would be using a dominant dog collar and not a prong.

Once I was through that would I would finish the training with a remote collar. I would never take this dog out without a remote collar on again. Not ever. My DVD teaches you how to train with these collars.

You are always going to be exposed to people who offer advice on how to fix your dogs behavioral issues.

The problem is that most of these people don’t have the experience to offer sound advice. This results in a lot of bad information being passed out on how to deal with behavioral problems.

Pet owners like yourself need to figure out who has the experience to warrant listening to.

Dog training is not my hobby, it’s a way of life. I have been training dogs for over 45 years. I have bred over 350 litters of working bloodline German Shepherds, I was a police K9 handler on a drug task force for 10 years and I have produced over 120 videos on dog training. Many of them directed towards professional dog trainers.

If my web site were printed out it would be over 10,000 pages. It is the largest dog training web site on the Internet. I have written 300 training article which are included on my site, I also have a dog training web discussion board which has 97,000 posts and growing every day. The board has 8,400 plus registered members and there is always over 100 people on the board at any time of the day.

Learn to use my web site search function.

Here are some articles you should study:

I recommend that you visit my web site and read a training article I recently wrote titled THE THEORY OF CORRECTIONS IN DOG TRAINING.

The reason I wrote this article was to help people understand how to motivate their dogs in training. Most people either use the wrong kind of correction or over correct dogs in training. I am not a fan of “force training” (although I most defiantly believe that every dog needs to go through a correction phase). By exploring corrections in training you will become a better dog trainer.

You may want to read the article I wrote titled The Ground Work to Becoming a Pack leader. This is the protocol we use in our home when we raise a puppy for ourselves. It is also the part of the protocol we use to solving behavioral problems such as dominance and/or house breaking problems.

I also recommend that you go to my web site and read the article I wrote on my philosophy of dog training. I think you will get some good ideas there.

Regards
Ed Frawley

Dealing with
Dominant & Aggressive Dogs

Out Pitt Bull is being attacked by In-laws Rotts

Hello,

My husband and I own a pitbull. His name is Munster (not our name of choice, we were given "Munster" while he was a puppy and he had gotten so used to the name that it stuck, we call him "Duke" around strangers that are weary of his breed.) He is the best dog I have ever owned, we even owned a pitbull before him...but had to find her a new home after she had shown aggresion towards me while I was feeding her. Munster has never shown aggresion towards us or any other people, or dogs that he has known in his life. He is just that kind of dog and we get compliments on how well we raised our Pit Bull from total strangers! Anways....we recently had to move in with my husbands parents while under money pressures. My in-laws own 2 Rottweilers. Angel and Sol are their names. Angel is a good dog, very gentle and playful, and always willing to please and listen. Sol is very aggressive towards strangers that come into the house, even strangers that have been around before ( He growls at my sister in-laws boyfriend every time he comes over!) Sol knew Munster when he was a puppy, they got along fine then. Angel and Munster play constantly, she doesn't play with Sol rarely ever! Ok so heres what happend....The first fight was when I was playing with Munster in the living room, Sol became jealous and leaped on Munster, only pinning him down at the time. I was able to seperate the dogs seconds after it happend though. You are going to roll your eyes at this and say (stupid dog owners)....The second time they fought I was playing outside with Munster...OUTSIDE! Sol gazed out the window the whole time and whined. When I braught Munster on the porch and opened the door to go inside Sol brust out and attacked Munster, he had him around his neck and it took me and my husband several minutes to pry them apart, none of the injuries were too serious, but damn Sol looked like he was going to kill Munster. I have been around thousands of pets (mother worked at a shelter for dogs in Greece called Noah's Ark) and never seen anything like this! The third time my husband and I were visiting friends of ours and had left our dog with my husbands parents. My father in law was cleaning up the garage and they got into it again, this time leaving somewhat severe injurys. Sol had a gash on his mouth but wasn't bleeding badly. Munster had a huge gash on his leg, but the bleeding was not too fatal either and they both seemed fine. By the way, porch fight and garage fight both happend within an amount of 7 days. Your really going to roll your eyes now, 2 weeks later the dogs got into it a 4th time. My dog never was the one attacking first...what the heck? I was confused and starting to devolop a deep hatred for Sol ( Munsters my baby, he cried when I cried...literally, he was never aggresive and I raised him since he was a baby) This fight though was different, I had just gotten a new job and was happy and excited, My husband and I were planning on taking Munster to a beach near our house for a bit of running, it would have been his first time at the beach! We were walking out the door with Munster on a leash. Munster rushed through the door and my husband yanked him back. Sol was inside the house and the front door was almost closed with my husband, myself and Munster outside when Sol burst through the door and went straight for Munster. Everytime my dog gets disciplined in any way Sol jumps in and attacks Munster. This fight turned out really bad, at least for Munster. I am sitting next to my baby boy at this very moment that I am typing and caring for his wounds. The whole family tried to pry Sol off Munster and I had ahold of Munsters leash and tried getting him inside, they pushed me so far back so hard that my ankle shattered a ceramic pot behind me and cut my ankle. You gotta think though, a family as big as ours trying to pull 1 dog off another, my sister in law, my husband, my mother in law, my father in law, my sister in laws boyfriend, me, and still Sol would not let go. My father in law wants to get rid of my dog but not his now. "This is Sol's house, he is protecting it" he tells me...wtf?!?! Sol growls at ME when I try and get him off MY bed!!!!! My dog now suffers from internal bleeding and severe cuts on his hind legs near his genitals. Sol's injuries....a cut on his lip. My dog has a good chance of dying tonight. I have suffered from severe deppression for awhile now and if my dog dies it will devistate me, if he doesn't die...I would love your recomendation of what to do???? I can't get rid of my dog, I am not finacially stable at all, my father in law doesn't know crap about animal aggresion and how bad it can get. I am scared for my dogs life, Please help me!

Sincerely,
Nia & Ryan & Munster

Ed's Answer to the Piutt Bull Attacks

The solution to this is almost identical to the email listed about it. The rots are not trained, they were not introduced to Pitt correctly. I wrote and article on how to intorduce a new dog into a home with other dogs. You need to read this to see the errors. With that said - it's too late. These dogs must be seaptrated with crates foir life or find a new home for your dog.

Introducing Dogs into Homes with Other Dogs

eBook

MY SISTERS mini pin/ Chihuahua mix dog:

I am inquiring about my sister’s mini pin/ Chihuahua mix dog, roughly 2 years old. He is generally a sweet little boy, but rules the roost among the other (3) dogs. The other day, my sister witnessed severe aggression toward one of the dogs over a chewee, and tried to break it up using a spray bottle (no effect), a whistle (same deal), and yelling (well…you can imagine). In the end he bit her. She really is at wits end. I wonder if you have any input on this situation. I worry, since she also has 3 children.

Thank you in advance,
Debbie Corina

Ed's Answer on Dog Pack Problems

Your sister owns a dog pack. Three dogs are a dog pack. She does not understand pack behavior or dominance.

Her dogs are not trained. If she wants to solve the problems the information to do so is found in my two training DVDs Basic Dog Obedience and DEALING WITH DOMINAT AND AGGRESSIVE DOGS

I recommend that you go to my web site and read the article I wrote on my philosophy of dog training. I think you will get some good ideas there.

I recommend that you visit my web site and read a training article I recently wrote titled THE THEORY OF CORRECTIONS IN DOG TRAINING.

Regards,
Ed

Basic Dog Obedience

9 DOG PACK with dog fights

Hi Mr. Frawley...

I've been exploring the internet because a problem has developed in our household. I found your site, and it's one of the most intelligent and helpful on the web.

I saw that you have addressed the problem we're having about family pets fighting, and have read your response: "You've created a pack, either separate the dogs or find some of them new homes", so I won't repeat the question about what to do...but I'm so distraught over it that I want to better understand why it's happening now...and that we've "created a pack" doesn't explain it.

Our 9 dogs are outside with us when we're out, and they come in when we're in. We have a sanctuary for abused horses (44 horses on 320 acres), so there's lots of activity, exercise, and energy burned for the dogs. Mealtime is supervised, no food dishes are left on the floor. 6 of them sleep in crates, the older ones sleep on beds in the living room. It's been like this for years.

And for years all 9 dogs have lived in perfect harmony, trouncing along with us as we tend to the horses. We have 5 purebred corgis, 2 mixes, and 2 hounds. Several months ago two of them got into a blood fight, and several others joined in while the rest circled and barked. All the sudden the incidents are escalating in frequency, and severity, and it's never the same two who start it.

This has been unbearably upsetting. So now I've been keeping them all separated, even before I read your website. But everything we loved about having our dogs as part of our family has changed. I would like to understand why, after years of no fights, would frenzied fights break out?

Thank you for all you do for animals...
Melanie Sue Bowles

Ed's comments on Dog Fights in Dog Pack

This is and issue of not understanding RANK within a pack. You USED TO HAVE a pack with well established RANK. Something happened to change that and the dogs are fighting to re-establish RANK. In the mean time you yourself was not a strong enough pack leader.

I will expand that as say that a strong respected pack leader does not have dog fights because the pack knows and respects the consequences of not following RULES that are ESTABLISHED BY THE PACK LEADER. These foundation for rules are set during normal obedience training (I can bet you a lot of money that your dogs are not completely obedience trained)

With this said Obedience training is ONLY PART (less than 50%) of the solution. Controlling the pack and rank is the other half and that’s the part that many people miss and don’t do.

There are two or three training DVDs I would recommend that will help solve your problems:

Basic Dog Obedience

Dealing with Dominant and Aggressive Dogs - YOU NEED THIS

Remote Collar Training for Pet Owners

Here are some training articles I would like to point you to:

I would start by recommending you read an article I recently wrote which explains my philosophy of dog training. I think you will get some ideas from this.

You should read the article I wrote on GROUND WORK TO BECOMING A PACK LEADER.

I would recommend that you read the article I wrote titled THE THEORY OF CORRECTIONS IN DOG TRAINING If you study this article and then incorporate that into your interaction with your dog, whether it’s in normal training or your day to day living with your dog you will find it will really help your relationship and your dogs performance.

I assume you have read the articles on dominance.

Good Luck

Ground Work to Becoming a Pack Leader

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